Let's bring CD back to the way it used to be

[David8696]

I agree with what you have to say at least 99.98%—and I'm probably misinterpreting the other .02%. But I'd like to point out that while "arguing for the sake of arguing" is an absolutely futile and pointless exercise, and beyond that it's actively negative as far as interpersonal relationships—all of which you perfectly articulated—there is a large difference between arguing for the sake of arguing and having a constructive debate in which two parties offer their different beliefs. Chief Delphi is a *forum*—a place for various people to offer varied opinions on a variety of topics. And the important part is *offer* those opinions. If, to use your example, one person thought FTC was the equal of FRC and another person thought FRC was superior, there would be nothing wrong with the two presenting their points in a calm, clear, friendly fashion. That's why we have conversation in the first place. It's when things start becoming hostile, when personal insults are exchanged or people start claiming the other person is absolutely wrong and stupid for having their opinion, that debate turns into argument, and that's when it becomes a problem.

Oh by the way, it should be noted that this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about: I'm being (as far as I know) civil, I'm offering up a series of thought-out points, and I'm not smashing down anyone's opinion. However, the fact that we may (or may not) have slightly differing viewpoints doesn't mean neither of us can talk about them.

[Karthik]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hallry again."

[Thad House]

This thread is so true. The insults though really need to stop NOW though. People have been publicly insulting other people, sometimes even anonymously. People have been insulting high level sponsors that provide millions of dollars to this program. I would bet that members of those companies, and the people being directly insulted are browsing this forum, seeing what is getting said about them, and thinking very hard about leaving because of what they see. This is not good for the growth of FIRST, and could have large negative impacts.

[Mastonevich]

I know people that have never and probably will never post anything on Chief Delphi because of the nature of the community to correct everything. Fear is a powerful motivator.

[JeremyLansing]

Originally Posted by Mastonevich

I know people that have never and probably will never post anything on Chief Delphi because of the nature of the community to correct everything. Fear is a powerful motivator.

This.

I rarely posted as a student for fear of having the "wrong" opinion. As a student it can be quite intimidating to put your thoughts out for the scrutiny of the wider community. Side note, I would love to see what percentage of Chief Delphi posts are made by students vs mentors.

[notmattlythgoe]

One thing that I do as a mentor is take note of which of my students are posting on CD. I periodically search for their username to see what they are saying. I have been fortunate that none of them have posted anything out of line from what I've seen. One thing we as mentors can do is help police the forums ourselves. If you see your students posting things that your team would deem as not gracious professionalism then talk to them.

I also periodically search the other mentors on the team to see what they are posting.

[XaulZan11]

Since the soap box is already out...In addition to the concerns Hallry brought up, I've been disappointed and frustrated with all the FIRST-hate earlier in the year. I'm not saying we all have to drink the kool-aid and praise FIRST every sentence, but when well-respected members of the community take every chance they get to criticize, take shots and and simply rant about FIRST, it sucks. Yes, there were some issues with the game and bad calls in some matches, but just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean you should go on CD, complain every post and ruin the experience for everyone else with constant negativity.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

In high school my friends and I used to joke that we would be able to better present ourselves to colleges and scholarships committees due to the fact that we spent so much time on Chief Delphi. We were ripped apart so often for poor spelling and grammar that we made a large effort to try and present ourselves in a more professional manner. In fact, I still think a lot of my internet writing style comes from thinking "How would Andy Baker try to communicate this?".

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

In high school my friends and I used to joke that we would be able to better present ourselves to colleges and scholarships committees due to the fact that we spent so much time on Chief Delphi. We were ripped apart so often for poor spelling and grammar that we made a large effort to try and present ourselves in a more professional manner. In fact, I still think a lot of my internet writing style comes from thinking "How would Andy Baker try to communicate this?".

The torch is being passed on to members such as you and Brandon and Carolyn Grace, Tom.

It is right for the torch to be passed on. Some torches will illuminate, as Andy Baker's has done, and others won't. The flame will burn or sputter ... It is up to the leadership qualities and character of the person who chooses to post in CD as an active participant. It has always been that way. From the time I began posting, I would look for your posts, Tom. They have always helped to lead the way. I value that. Leadership is something to be tended with grace and kindness as much as experience and knowledge. Dr. Flowers understands that balance very well and has talked about it many many times.

Jane

[billylo]

In the world of programmers, technical Q&A forums are used a LOT and very successfully (i.e. the useful content ratio is very high in some places).

One of the most successful one is called StackOverflow.com. Powered by a free community software called StackExchange.

StackOverflow revolves around technical questions and answers. No political debates; practical questions only. Answers can be ranked by readers so that the most useful answer floats to the top.

If there is a desire to bring CD back to a tool for roboteers, rather than a platform for debates, I would highly suggest us to take a look at the StackOverflow model or try hosting a site there. They have to be doing something right as StackExchange is increasingly popular with 5.4 million users.

[Duncan Macdonald]

Thank you for starting this thread, maybe we could pin it somewhere highly visible (Top of the portal comes to mind).


While we try to keep CD moving forward a couple of things that I would advocate removing/reducing:

-Reaction gifs. In a community consisting of freshmen and rocket scientists we are going to say/learn something that someone else finds simplistic or wrong. In my opinion reaction gifs rarely contribute to the tread and are sometimes used to intimidate or belittle others.

-When people say

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to OP again."

If we really have less then 10 people generating meaningful content can we eliminate this forum rule? Or can you just green dot 9 other somewhat useful posts? Posting this often feels like people wanting attention for sharing opinions or being a good person.

That said, maybe I'm no fun and out of touch. I'd be interested if anyone has any opinions on these or other items.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Maybe I just have a far different memory of the old CD than most...

It was far harsher than the CD I see now. I see a lot of folks complaining at people being too harsh or disagreeing with opinions. But none of that is new.

A quick waltz through some threads found several of these "trustees" saying some pretty nasty things. I'm not doing this to call them out, merely to point out that it's always been this way and that saying "Let's go back to the old days" is at best a pointless thing to say.

Andrew has a lot of truth in this, especially on the technical information that over time proved informative enough that a business major could learn enough to be dangerous. I know Dave laid the smackdown on me here on at least one occasion--but I deserved it. I don't find any fault with blunt, well-written come-on-you-guys discussion when a person knows their stuff.

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

In high school my friends and I used to joke that we would be able to better present ourselves to colleges and scholarships committees due to the fact that we spent so much time on Chief Delphi. We were ripped apart so often for poor spelling and grammar that we made a large effort to try and present ourselves in a more professional manner. In fact, I still think a lot of my internet writing style comes from thinking "How would Andy Baker try to communicate this?".

My post count here on CD is...high, but it would be thousands more if I posted every post I aborted because I couldn't hit that level of quality. Not even just spelling and grammar, even the thoroughness of my research or argument. The spelling and grammar seem to have improved by my seat-of-the-pants measurement, but it is something that we have to keep an eye on as a community. I speak from experience: this is a very, very marketable skill in any profession.

Originally Posted by Duncan Macdonald

While we try to keep CD moving forward a couple of things that I would advocate removing/reducing:

-Reaction gifs. In a community consisting of freshmen and rocket scientists we are going to say/learn something that someone else finds simplistic or wrong. In my opinion reaction gifs rarely contribute to the tread and are sometimes used to intimidate or belittle others.

-When people say If we really have less then 10 people generating meaningful content can we eliminate this forum rule? Or can you just green dot 9 other somewhat useful posts? Posting this often feels like people wanting attention for sharing opinions or being a good person.

Reaction GIFs have their place in my eyes (sparingly, and generally as an alternate form of praise), but I will say something about reputation. According to the CD control panel, my reputation-giving power is currently 622 points. That's a large swing for a user with fewer posts, which may have a greater effect than I might deem necessary. That colors my decision to leave positive/neutral/no reputation on a post. Your mileage may vary.

Posting this way also has the secondary effect of a public endorsement, which can have its own effects on discussion. I'd agree that an in-depth reply is better, but nobody's perfect.

[Whippet]

Originally Posted by Mastonevich

I know people that have never and probably will never post anything on Chief Delphi because of the nature of the community to correct everything. Fear is a powerful motivator.

On the other hand, I am never afraid to post on CD if I'm pretty sure I'm correct, because if I'm wrong, I'll be corrected within minutes by a more well-established member. I have learned quite a bit this way, and will probably be learning like this to at least some degree until I die.

[JRuegsegger]

It is part of the nature of engineers to improve upon systems, in a general sense. It should thus be desirable to improve upon the system known as Chief Delphi, rectifying its weaknesses and developing its strengths. While it is possible, even evident, that this forum has been just as hostile in the past, as a community we should not feel justified in maintaining an undesirable environment. The CD community is ultimately responsible for the contents of its own forum, and thus should take ownership, as a community, for how it will operate in the future.

[Nathan Rossi]

Originally Posted by Mastonevich

Fear is a powerful motivator.

True, I don't post here often due to myself always being concerned about what I post. I spend way too much time making sure my posts are acceptable. Reading them several times over, even when it's something as simple as "Looks great! Can't wait to see your robot at competition." But, this isn't exclusive to CD, it's a quirk in my personality.

I don't want to be wrong, but I know I will be from time to time, it's part of life. In fact, you're more likely to remember something if you are corrected (in a respectful manner).

Plus, if I'm unsure about something, I know someone else on CD will reply in a moments notice, that's the power of the internet. But with great power comes great responsibility.
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

Looking back at my posts, I can see one thread that I added a bit of fuel to the flame, I apologize for that.