Let's bring CD back to the way it used to be

[Hallry]

I’ve never talked to Brandon Holley in person, but something that he said once has stuck with me lately. His custom user title reads “Let's bring CD back to the way it used to be”, which we should all strive to do.

Recently, it seems as though CD has been a hotbed of hostile quarrels. People have thrown respect for others out the window, and honestly it seems that some users are arguing just for the sake of arguing. Truthfully, I'm sick and tired of it. And, in some cases, it feels like it is the same people at the center of every negative thread.

Let’s discuss some things. Everyone has different opinions, and most of the time people stick to theirs. However, just because you may disagree with what another person thinks does NOT mean that they’re wrong, nor are you wrong. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. There’s no use in fighting with someone just to ‘win’, because you won’t. There’s nothing to win. Learn to respect the opinions of others, even if they are the complete opposite of yours. Some people might not agree with yours, either. If someone thinks that FTC and FRC should be thought of as equals while you think FRC is better than FTC, that’s fine. Those are your own opinions. Respect them and move on. Stop fighting about who is ‘right’.

For those of you who don’t know what respect is, here’s some Aretha Franklin for ya. You can find out what it means to me.

Also, there’s no use being nit-picky about the little details of every single post, nor is it worth it to rip on someone for not spelling everything perfectly. If someone states that FRC is about 25 years old, there is no reason to quote them and correct them by saying it is only exactly 23 years old. Chief Delphi is supposed to be a fun and constructive internet forum, for all of FIRST to enjoy. We’re not writing SAT essays here, nor are our posts the equivalent of a master’s thesis. If someone tries to post something helpful, yet misspells a few words here and there, we should be thanking them for their assistance, not putting them down since they used the wrong form of “they’re/their/there”. Everyone, yes, even you and me, makes mistakes here and there.

Almost everyone has been guilty of being a bit aggressive over the past few months, including myself. As Don Rotolo recently said, “We are all one big team, even though we are split into thousands of smaller teams.” I don’t care if you’re FRC, FTC, FLL, or even Jr. FLL. We’re all one big FIRST family. Yeah, families fight from time to time (trust me, as the youngest child with two older sisters, I’m well aware of that), but people should not be afraid to post here just because they are worried of getting yelled at and receiving a bad rep.

So, let’s all have a corndog and relax for a bit. Chief Delphi is supposed to be a place for people to ask for help, for others to give help, and for everyone to learn and have fun. I’m not perfect, you’re not perfect, no one is perfect. But before you post next, stop and think to yourself, “what would my grandma think if she saw me saying this?”. Or worse, sponsors? Let's not forget our gracious professionalism.

Thank you, Brandon Holley, for the consistent reminder of what this site is meant to accomplish: a welcoming community, where the members all support one another, and are understanding of the views of others. Now let's all work hard to achieve that again.

Darn, my soapbox broke...

[Jay O'Donnell]

Thanks for posting this Ryan. It's painful to watch threads get derailed because of silly arguments. Glad to see other people feel the same way.

[Taylor]

It's also important to understand that CD is a public and searchable forum. My wife was looking up information about Jane Cosmetics, and one of the top Google responses was the CD thread.
She glanced through it, and commented to me, "That's a poor way to treat a sponsor."

[E Dawg]

Thank you Hallry for this. CD is one of the few places on the internet where I can go and not see flame wars happening (though lately, that's been different). Hopefully we can work together to make it stay that way and make it a better place for us all to be.

[David8696]

I agree with what you have to say at least 99.98%—and I'm probably misinterpreting the other .02%. But I'd like to point out that while "arguing for the sake of arguing" is an absolutely futile and pointless exercise, and beyond that it's actively negative as far as interpersonal relationships—all of which you perfectly articulated—there is a large difference between arguing for the sake of arguing and having a constructive debate in which two parties offer their different beliefs. Chief Delphi is a *forum*—a place for various people to offer varied opinions on a variety of topics. And the important part is *offer* those opinions. If, to use your example, one person thought FTC was the equal of FRC and another person thought FRC was superior, there would be nothing wrong with the two presenting their points in a calm, clear, friendly fashion. That's why we have conversation in the first place. It's when things start becoming hostile, when personal insults are exchanged or people start claiming the other person is absolutely wrong and stupid for having their opinion, that debate turns into argument, and that's when it becomes a problem.

Oh by the way, it should be noted that this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about: I'm being (as far as I know) civil, I'm offering up a series of thought-out points, and I'm not smashing down anyone's opinion. However, the fact that we may (or may not) have slightly differing viewpoints doesn't mean neither of us can talk about them.

[Karthik]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hallry again."

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Taylor

It's also important to understand that CD is a public and searchable forum. My wife was looking up information about Jane Cosmetics, and one of the top Google responses was the CD thread.
She glanced through it, and commented to me, "That's a poor way to treat a sponsor."

Adding on to this, a quick series of google searches of individuals on the message board result in THEIR Chief Delphi posts showing up on the first results page. Because I am blessed by my parents with an incomprehensible change in format of the name "Will" (instead of William, I'm a "Wilson") I for one show up A LOT so despite the very wide range of quality in my posts (from preachy to trolling) I do pay attention to what I say and delete some of the dumber stuff I've said before it gets locked in here forever.

If you don't believe me, google me, or maybe even yourself!

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by David8696

I agree with what you have to say at least 99.98%—and I'm probably misinterpreting the other .02%. But I'd like to point out that while "arguing for the sake of arguing" is an absolutely futile and pointless exercise, and beyond that it's actively negative as far as interpersonal relationships—all of which you perfectly articulated—there is a large difference between arguing for the sake of arguing and having a constructive debate in which two parties offer their different beliefs. Chief Delphi is a *forum*—a place for various people to offer varied opinions on a variety of topics. And the important part is *offer* those opinions. If, to use your example, one person thought FTC was the equal of FRC and another person thought FRC was superior, there would be nothing wrong with the two presenting their points in a calm, clear, friendly fashion. That's why we have conversation in the first place. It's when things start becoming hostile, when personal insults are exchanged or people start claiming the other person is absolutely wrong and stupid for having their opinion, that debate turns into argument, and that's when it becomes a problem.

Oh by the way, it should be noted that this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about: I'm being (as far as I know) civil, I'm offering up a series of thought-out points, and I'm not smashing down anyone's opinion. However, the fact that we may (or may not) have slightly differing viewpoints doesn't mean neither of us can talk about them.

FRC is important, and it's complicated, and no one is entirely sure what it should look like (well, some people may be sure, but they're sure about entirely different things). Healthy debate is essential to figuring this out. Of course there's a line, and people need to watch out for it, and the admins here need to police it. But there are times when I see legitimate debate cut off because of an excessive fear of minor hostility, and that's never a good thing.

[cadandcookies]

Well that was an excellent birthday post.

[Thad House]

This thread is so true. The insults though really need to stop NOW though. People have been publicly insulting other people, sometimes even anonymously. People have been insulting high level sponsors that provide millions of dollars to this program. I would bet that members of those companies, and the people being directly insulted are browsing this forum, seeing what is getting said about them, and thinking very hard about leaving because of what they see. This is not good for the growth of FIRST, and could have large negative impacts.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Hallry

I’ve never talked to Brandon Holley in person

Really? He's been at a few events where I know you were, too. My advice: Find him. Good "kid"*

Originally Posted by Hallry

However, just because you may disagree with what another person thinks does NOT mean that they’re wrong

Yes, it does.

OK, seriously: Ryan, CD has always had some bickering; what we are seeing today is just more of it. In the past, the 'trustees'** of CD would either PM, or negative rep, or outright ban someone who was practicing "Obnoxious Amateurism"***, or just a troublemaker.

Whats' changed is that we are seeing reduced involvement of the trustees. I am not trying to criticize Brandon Martus, but many in the CD community would be tickled pink to help him maintain decorum.

CD is not like other fora on the Interweb: We have a younger crowd here, and "Gracious" is a key word in our vocabulary. We can change it, but we need moderators who will do it and admins who believe it is the right way to run a forum.

Good post Ryan, thank you.

Don


*Kid to me, since I'm such an old fart. It's all relative.
**Mostly the forum moderators, but fewer and fewer are active these days. Possibly because the atmosphere is different.
***The opposite of Gracious Professionalism.

.

[Mastonevich]

I know people that have never and probably will never post anything on Chief Delphi because of the nature of the community to correct everything. Fear is a powerful motivator.

[JeremyLansing]

Originally Posted by Mastonevich

I know people that have never and probably will never post anything on Chief Delphi because of the nature of the community to correct everything. Fear is a powerful motivator.

This.

I rarely posted as a student for fear of having the "wrong" opinion. As a student it can be quite intimidating to put your thoughts out for the scrutiny of the wider community. Side note, I would love to see what percentage of Chief Delphi posts are made by students vs mentors.

[notmattlythgoe]

One thing that I do as a mentor is take note of which of my students are posting on CD. I periodically search for their username to see what they are saying. I have been fortunate that none of them have posted anything out of line from what I've seen. One thing we as mentors can do is help police the forums ourselves. If you see your students posting things that your team would deem as not gracious professionalism then talk to them.

I also periodically search the other mentors on the team to see what they are posting.

[XaulZan11]

Since the soap box is already out...In addition to the concerns Hallry brought up, I've been disappointed and frustrated with all the FIRST-hate earlier in the year. I'm not saying we all have to drink the kool-aid and praise FIRST every sentence, but when well-respected members of the community take every chance they get to criticize, take shots and and simply rant about FIRST, it sucks. Yes, there were some issues with the game and bad calls in some matches, but just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean you should go on CD, complain every post and ruin the experience for everyone else with constant negativity.