9th Seed not Getting Picked for Elims?

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Henry,
We moved up to ninth at Champs this year after the first round of picks and sat out. It happens.

That is much more common. A team could be as low as the 17th seed in that situation.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Additionally, this game presents an interesting difference from previous games. Previously, you could more or less figure out who would be picked based on a simple point differential - each alliance would take the first available team who can either score the most points or prevent the other alliance from scoring the most. This year, there was a lot more strategy involved, looking for robots who could fill specific roles - in bounder, trusser, assister, scorer. It didn't pay to get two robots that were the best in one of those roles.

There's two corollaries:
1) The seedings this year were much more often defined by the alliance partners a team had. A team at IER this year made the top 8 even though it was just a drive train.

2) Teams had to pick much more for specific roles on the field. We were a midfielder, but so was 868 in Newton who was second. We needed a front court robot and 1114 fit the bill. We could see that choice being made down through the first round of selections.

[JamesCH95]

I have heard:

'We thought you had already been picked.'

and

'We never thought you would be available when we were picking, so we crossed you off our list.'

Just goes to show you that teenagers put center-stage and forced to make a significant decision with only a few minutes consideration can make mistakes. Who'd a thunk it?

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

Just goes to show you that teenagers put center-stage and forced to make a significant decision with only a few minutes consideration can make mistakes. Who'd a thunk it?

I would say that was a case of poor planning or lack of attention to detail, not some issue with teenage abilities.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

I have heard:

'We thought you had already been picked.'

and

'We never thought you would be available when we were picking, so we crossed you off our list.'

Just goes to show you that teenagers put center-stage and forced to make a significant decision with only a few minutes consideration can make mistakes. Who'd a thunk it?

That sounds about right, since it seems about 10% of teams asked to join an alliance at any given event are not actually at that event.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

That sounds about right, since it seems about 10% of teams asked to join an alliance at any given event are not actually at that event.

Or are already picked.... or the #1 seed... etc...

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Monochron

I would say that was a case of poor planning or lack of attention to detail, not some issue with teenage abilities.

I would agree with this...

Too many teams get up there without a pick list, and we hear too many picks for teams that aren't at the event (I heard this even happened on one of the Champs divisions this year!), or have already been picked, etc.

It's all about planning and preparation. We have our scouting program up, it exports an exhaustive pick list (seriously... every team at an event is on our pick list), and our team representative just types the numbers into the spreadsheet in another column as they've been picked, and those teams are automatically removed from the list. A little prep goes a long way...

What really disturbs me is the "We never thought you would be available when we were picking, so we crossed you off our list." With our list, the only teams that are ever crossed off before selection starts are maybe one or two our drive team feels they can't work productively with. Being overbearing, treating the team dismissively, or being plain jerks is one sure way to ensure our team won't pick you, even if you have the best robot out there.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by BigJ

Now I'm curious if a team in the top 8 or gets bumped into the top 8 can decline an alliance captain spot on the basis of a non-functioning robot (a reason you'd decline an invitation from outside the top 8 most of the time).

Yes, it happened last year in Milwaukee. More Robotics broke and were asked to join the alliance. In one of the best declines I ever heard, the team rep explained the robot had a fault that could not be corrected in time and offered all of their scouting data to the alliance that asked them. I am very happy to know them and believe them to be a World Class Team for showing the ultimate in GP.

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Yes, it happened last year in Milwaukee. More Robotics broke and were asked to join the alliance. In one of the best declines I ever heard, the team rep explained the robot had a fault that could not be corrected in time and offered all of their scouting data to the alliance that asked them. I am very happy to know them and believe them to be a World Class Team for showing the ultimate in GP.

Oh yeah, I remember that.

I more meant like, say, 1675 is ranked 6th at a regional but knows their robot broke in the last match and is "unfixable" -- are they forced to remain an alliance captain and leave 2 unwitting alliance members to a backup bot? Or can they "graciously" step out of contention and have each other team move up a seed?

[Jon Stratis]

I can't find anything in the rules that lays out a process for an alliance captain to decline, BigJ. But one sure way to do it is to not be present for alliance selection!

A year ago at North Star I had a team pack up their pit and start to haul stuff out before alliance selection. One of my inspectors caught them when they were asking for the garage door to be opened so they could leave, and pulled me in to talk with them. The team was very upfront and had obviously spent some time thinking things through. They told me they were well aware of their robot's capabilities and they were positive they weren't going to be picked. They wanted to load up the truck and get started on the several hour drive home they had.

After a bit of back and forth, I asked them what seed they were. After all, a team seeded 60th who is positive they won't be picked and wants to leave before alliance selection could be seen as a gracious decline. But that's not where they were seeded. No, they were the 9th seed. Once I heard that, I ordered them back to their pit. I explained that I've seen enough alliance selection and enough matches to know that XXXX was going to pick YYYY, and they were going to be an alliance captain. Turns out, they captained the 7th place alliance.

I imagine that, if the team really had packed up and left, everyone would have shifted up and they essentially would have been skipped.

[Max Boord]

I remember at one of the east coast events teams in the top 8 were asked if they wanted to become an alliance captain.

[Christopher149]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I can't find anything in the rules that lays out a process for an alliance captain to decline, BigJ. But one sure way to do it is to not be present for alliance selection!

A year ago at North Star I had a team pack up their pit and start to haul stuff out before alliance selection. One of my inspectors caught them when they were asking for the garage door to be opened so they could leave, and pulled me in to talk with them. The team was very upfront and had obviously spent some time thinking things through. They told me they were well aware of their robot's capabilities and they were positive they weren't going to be picked. They wanted to load up the truck and get started on the several hour drive home they had.

After a bit of back and forth, I asked them what seed they were. After all, a team seeded 60th who is positive they won't be picked and wants to leave before alliance selection could be seen as a gracious decline. But that's not where they were seeded. No, they were the 9th seed. Once I heard that, I ordered them back to their pit. I explained that I've seen enough alliance selection and enough matches to know that XXXX was going to pick YYYY, and they were going to be an alliance captain. Turns out, they captained the 7th place alliance.

I imagine that, if the team really had packed up and left, everyone would have shifted up and they essentially would have been skipped.

+1 to ordering them back to be captain . How did they do in elims?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by BigJ

Now I'm curious if a team in the top 8 or gets bumped into the top 8 can decline an alliance captain spot on the basis of a non-functioning robot (a reason you'd decline an invitation from outside the top 8 most of the time).

It happened a few years ago at another MI District event. The team had already qualified for State, and wanted to use the pit time. (Plus, it gave another team a chance to get points.) The scouting captain was on the sidelines with me in 9th or 10th and wondered if he could decline if he got moved up. Eventually he declined to be the captain the 7th alliance.

[Leo1oser]

Our team played on Newton this year, and finished 18th after losing a match to 1986 and 971 in the final qualification match. To our dismay, MARS was the highest seed (I think) left out of eliminations. I guess that had to do with a touch penalty or what role we could play (maybe we didn't show off our trussing abilities enough?), but the news left our team and head mentor (who had just spent three hours fixing our robot's transmissions ) Being left out of eliminations is tough.

[Jscout11]

At the Clifton MAR District, interpicking in the top 8 left the 8th seed vacant right as the 8th seed got to make their first selection. The spot should have been filled by the next highest ranked team, which at that point was Team 4035 at Rank 12.

However, 4035 was accidentally skipped over, and the next highest ranked team, Team 3340 at Rank 14, was called in to fill the 8th slot. After they made their first selection, the staff realized the mistake and had both 3340 and their selection sit back down. Luckily, all teams involved still did play in eliminations

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