Vertical Mill for FRC

[vertigo]

Hey All,
I'm a mentor for Team 4619 looking for some tooling advice. We were lucky enough to receive a monetary grant from a sponsor specifically for new machine tools for our team. We already have a dedicated work-space in the school auto shop (with lots of small hand tools) and decided the best use of this sponsor money would be for a vertical mill and associated tooling. I have limited experience with large machine tools, and would love to get some advice/thoughts on the mill linked below. It fits well within our shop space, available power, and expected manufacturing needs. The price also allows us some room to buy bits and other accessories with the sponsor money. Does anyone have experience with the Grizzly brand? Thanks!

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill/G0758

[theawesome1730]

It depends on your budget of course, but look into a Bridgeport knee-mill. You can find some pretty decent ones for not tons of money nowadays. They are bigger, but can also handle larger loads if you need them to.

Edit: If power is a concern as you stated, a Bridgeport may not be within reason. Ours is 3-phase 208volt and I'm not sure if single phase 110 can be found

[sanddrag]

3476 Code Orange has a very similar (if not identical) mill to the Grizzly one linked, and they're pretty close by to you. I bet they'd be willing to show it to you.

[vertigo]

Originally Posted by theawesome1730

Edit: If power is a concern as you stated, a Bridgeport may not be within reason. Ours is 3-phase 208volt and I'm not sure if single phase 110 can be found

As of right now, we only have access to standard wall outlets in our shop. There has been some discussion of adding some higher voltage hookups in the future, but nothing is certain.

[protoserge]

If that's the size you're looking for, go for the G0704. It's a little bigger and not much more. Also, it has quite an aftermarket for mods (CNC conversions, motor upgrades, Tormach Tool System adapter, and belt drive kits - "Hoss" will become familiar after some light research).

If you have a little more cash, get a PM-30MV-L (these are also the same basic mill as the Grizzly series you posted). I bought one and it is quite a nice machine (pic of mine on pallet). As with almost any mill, it is time well spent to take it apart, clean, grease and lube the ways, reassemble, and tram before use. You'll notice a huge increase in smoothness and feel.

That being said, I've spent more than the mill on tooling and CNC conversion components. Most of my tooling came from Glacern. They have very good Black Friday sales and are great quality for the dollar. I got cutters (cheap and highly likely to break while learning the machine capabilities) from Shars (I got a 3" boring head from them and it is OK - nothing to write home about, but does do the job decently). I'd recommend cheap cutters when students are using it.

A Bridgeport knee mill is still a great option, but it is heavy (forklift required) and doesn't run on 115V. A used one isn't that much more than the PM mill I posted, but it provides a new set of challenges to take into consideration.

[CENTURION]

I'm going to just copy/paste a response of mine from a similar thread. I know you aren't looking at CNC necessarily, but I think it's something to think about.

A lot of the FRC parts that need CNC work tend to be sheet material. To that end, a CNC router can be a very good choice. Compared to a mill they're very cheap, and they have large work envelopes for doing panels, belly pans, etc. They're more accurate than plasma, and cheaper than waterjet or laser. They're also more versatile than those machines, as they can do "2.5D" work like pocketing, counterboring, champfering, engraving, etc. Also, you can build one yourself, they're not exceptionally complicated for FRC-trained people, as long as you put in the research time (CNCzone.com is your friend)

I'm currently designing a (pretty hardcore) router for BadgerBOTS, I'd be happy to share my CAD files, design notes, expertise, etc. with anyone interested (Just keep in mind that we're fairly early in the project).

Now, if the machine you linked to is about the limit of your price range, you'll likely have a bit of trouble getting into a good router. But I've just found that most of the parts we want to mill end up being sheet material, and a router will get you more work area for the price. Just something to keep in mind.

I haven't used anything like that little Grizzly, but just from the specs it seems like a decent machine. Just keep in mind that you can't expect too much from it, it's not going to have the accuracy or rigidity of a larger machine like a knee mill.

If you can save your money and get a nice used knee mill (bonus points for a DRO), you'll be much better off in the long run.

[Cory]

It's a giant (well actually small) POS...but if it's what you can fit, it's better than nothing, I suppose.

The Rong Fu RF-45 or the PM-45 (Basically the same thing. Might be some minor fit/finish differences. Probably made in the same factory) are ~3x more, but more than 3x more machine. You can actually do some real work on them and not hate life the entire time.

[ajlapp]

I bought my first Bridgeport for about twice what this Grizzly cost.

If you're clever you can probably score one for under $1500.

I run my machines from static phase converters...they're not the best solution, but single phase 220v is fairly easy to get access to.

I agree with Cory that Grizzly is more or less junk.

[colin340]

DO NOT BUY THAT PILE OF POT METAL LOOK FOR NAMES LIKE Bridgeport, supermax, trax , kent

[Qbot2640]

Not wanting to discount anyone's input - but I'd recommend you beware of the "extreme" responses (both favorable and unfavorable). I have the 0704 in my basement - basically the same machine with a bit bigger table - and it is a very capable machine.

I listened to everyone's advice to find a Bridgeport or Enco etc. etc. but after a year of religiously searching Craigslist and Ebay they just were not available like everyone thinks....and when they are they are in need of massive repairs or adjustments...or they are HUGE...or they require 3 phase. If someone has a nice little Bridgeport in their shop they hold on to it. Yes they can be found, but it is extremely rare.

For the average team (not necessarily the average Cheif Delphi posting team) a mill like this will be a tremendous enhancement. Couple this with a local machine shop or fabrication sponsor for your bigger stuff and you're in business. (plus you might gain a valuable mentor with some great tool-room teaching skills too.)

I wish you were closer - you'd be welcome to come "mill up a storm" to see what you think. Look for one nearby that you can try out.

[Andy A.]

Originally Posted by Cory

It's a giant (well actually small) POS...but if it's what you can fit, it's better than nothing, I suppose.

The Rong Fu RF-45 or the PM-45 (Basically the same thing. Might be some minor fit/finish differences. Probably made in the same factory) are ~3x more, but more than 3x more machine. You can actually do some real work on them and not hate life the entire time.

I'll second the RF-45. There are some knockoffs out there with poor castings but genuine Rong-Fu's are quality machines for the price and size. I've set up two and both continue to run well and treat their novices users well.

I think they're also super popular with the CNC conversion crowd. I'm not sure that that conversion really makes a lot of sense but it does mean there are a lot of folks out there who know the machine inside and out.

[protoserge]

OP, what is the space you have dedicated for the mill? That might have been a good question for us to ask. Floor plans are often assumed large enough for the larger machines these threads. What exactly are your power capabilities? Are there requirements to buy "new" from your sponsor?

Do you have or are you also getting a horizontal and vertical bandsaw, drill press and lathe?

I agree with the sponsor + in-house shop capabilities that Qbot brought up. This is what my team does since we can't fit or afford a waterjet or the 4000 kW laser cutter that one of our sponsors has

[colin340]

The quality in casting and design and supply of aftermarket parts make the big old machine worth it i got my Bridgeport for 800$ yeah the screws are beat up but its a chassis to rebuild later. For now it's head and shoulders above the LX-329 we have up to school.


http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...457199058.html weird out of date cnc!! convert back!!

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac...475132393.html ---great rig

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...482171177.html

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant...472300972.html T0O cheap!!

[colin340]

Originally Posted by theawesome1730

It depends on your budget of course, but look into a Bridgeport knee-mill. You can find some pretty decent ones for not tons of money nowadays. They are bigger, but can also handle larger loads if you need them to.

Edit: If power is a concern as you stated, a Bridgeport may not be within reason. Ours is 3-phase 208volt and I'm not sure if single phase 110 can be found

mine has the drive motor swapped to a off the shelf 110v

[coalhot]

We recently acquired a Lagun FTV-2 with CNC control, it's been a really nice tool to have around. Speaking to brands, I don't have a favorite, just don't get something cheaper if you can help it (some Grizzly and Jet tools come to mind as being the cheaper end).

I'd suggest searching for a local rigger and/or used tool place nearby you. They tend to get nice used tools sometimes. We had to move our tools last week to a different part of the building, and the rigger made the comment of "I had a FTV-1, had to send it to the scrapper because no one in Philly wants one".

Also, never hurts to ask a local university that has an engineering program if they are upgrading any time soon. Sometimes they give you the machines for the price of moving them out.