A Change in this year's Spirit of FIRST?

[Jeff_Rice]

I must agree with Ken L.

Though many variations of this statement have been said, I will say it anyway.

FIRST teaches us about life, and how to better it for ourselves and others.

Why does NASA donate so much to FIRST teams? Because in bettering the lives of the participants, many of the participants will eventually better the world.

FIRST is much more than a competition. It is a program to make ourselves better, and in the process, make the world a better place.

[MBurr-Mecum]

In defense of soezgg, there is a similar thread to this in robot showcase in which similar views were expressed and then recanted. This overwhelming reaction to negative posts has sent a clear message on what will and will not be accepted in the FIRST community, and I congratulate you all.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally posted by Ken L
I remember the good old times when I was eager to go into the forum and see people talking about interesting issues. I was too afraid to post replies, and was silently reading posts after posts learning whatever I can to prepare myself to enter one of the most exciting places in FIRST community, arming myself with basic knowledge of just about everything, and making sure I sort out my own line of thinking/feeling before I form my voice....
I start thinking about the role I want to take in FIRST and in other places, and I remember how much fun it was to inspire people, and teach them new things...
Believe it or not, when we register for this forum, ...we took on a little of the responsibility of showing others what’s the right thing to say. Lots and lots of viewers who come in here to read the forum look up to us for good ideas and data, because when we started showing our voices in the FIRST community in the forum/chatroom, we became sort of a role model, for newer members to come in and see, what’s the proper way to have intellectual discussions about something we are really excited about. The newer members look at what’s posted/said in the forum/chatroom to see how people are supposed to expression opinions and communicate. In a way, we are all teachers from the beginning we stop being a reader and start being a poster.

So start posting and show a good example to others ;-)...Make an example, and start influencing and inspiring others. There are lots of teams out there waiting to benefit from the CD forum just the way we benefit when we started.

Nicely said, Ken.
I don't believe there has been that much of a change in spirit, it is pretty much this way every year. New members (not necessarily rookie teams) are overloaded with this new concept of gracious professionalism. They hear about it on this forum and others and certainly from the FIRST docs and staff, but can anyone really know this concept from just reading about it? It doesn't hit home until it is experienced. Those who know what I am talking about have seen it firsthand. That time when you explained your robot design or strategy to a competing team member who didn't expect it. That incredulous, almost double take look, when you explained that you are required to give them that info. That look that said "what planet are you from?" until they realized you were serious. I see it at every event I attend, and not from students but adults as well.
Keep up the good work, it is making a difference out there.

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally posted by Ken L
Believe it or not, when we register for this forum, and posted the first word in one of the forums, we took on a little of the responsibility of showing others what’s the right thing to say. Lots and lots of viewers who come in here to read the forum look up to us for good ideas and data, because when we started showing our voices in the FIRST community in the forum/chatroom, we became sort of a role model, for newer members to come in and see, what’s the proper way to have intellectual discussions about something we are really excited about. The newer members look at what’s posted/said in the forum/chatroom to see how people are supposed to expression opinions and communicate. In a way, we are all teachers from the beginning we stop being a reader and start being a poster.

It is an important task we are taking on right now, whether you realize it or not. The subtle ways in which we express ourselves form a voice in the FIRST community that others look up to and learn from.

To me FIRST is a microcosm of real life. There are difficult people everywhere. Each person learns about Gracious Professionalism or not at their own pace. I certainly learned from others' examples in my life outside of FIRST, and now inside of FIRST. Life can swing back and forth, and so can the Gracious Professionalism displayed on the forums. I am in control of myself. I can practice Gracious Professionalism myself, no matter what others around me do or say.

My daughter, captain of our team, keeps remarking that our team hasn't had ANY fights this year. A HUGE improvement over last year. The improvements were a process, not an arrival at a sudden destination of Gracious Professionalism. We can continue that process on these forums, even thru the appearance of backward steps.

I in particular have experienced this year the FIRST camaraderie and Gracious Professionalism I'd heard about from teams other than our own. I'm experiencing a better experience in FIRST than our family experienced last year. *shrug* I'm not experiencing the negativity that others are experiencing and expressing on this thread. I'm very grateful for the difference FIRST makes in our family's life.

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally posted by SuperDanman

• FIRST wants what may be a contradictory set of goals: expand to every high school in the US, and still keep its unique flavor (epitomized by "gracious professionalism").
• If you expand to every high school in the nation, you're going to bring in the bad as well as some good. The mere existence of this thread proves that despite Dean's and Woody's best efforts, this is unfortunately the case.
• If you don't bring in new people, you become a exclusive society of elitists (think popular snobbish-society or ivy-leage-school stereotypes).

So, the question is this:
how do you strike a balance?

I think trying to strike a balance is trying to reach utopia.
I don't think Dean and Woody wants to "keep out the bad". They want to spread the experience - including the experience of learning about Gracious Professionalism.

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally posted by amandabean
While ChiefDelphi Forums have an incredible amount of information to pass along to teams, they have somehow been infused with comments that should never be said under the influence of the spirit of gracious professionalism (no fault of their own).

What went wrong? How can we stop this?

I've experienced that kind of thing outside of FIRST, and those experiences helped me learn how to stand up for myself, sometimes how to stand up for others, when to let go and not do something, when to speak up, how to speak up for myself with more graciousness...FIRST is an arena to learn about Gracious Professionalism and how to apply Gracious Professionalism in all of life.

[Todd Derbyshire]

I think ever since you have to qualify to go to Nats that's when alot of teams developed this new form of gracious professionalism. "Yah we will be there to pick you up...after the match." Dean wanted F.I.R.S.T. to become a sport a consequence is that you have this attitude coming in. Personally I don't mind it as much because through my experiences in sports its how I play. So FIRST to me is like a sport be kind and polite off the field and leave everything on the field. Many times however, the kind and polite part isn't followed through. It happens I'm victim of it myself. Its just human nature for it to happen. When you work on something for six weeks its hard to accept defeat and you look for excuses. You lash out on people on forums it happens: I can go on I'm a psychology major lol. To conclude I think the new form of gracious professionalism is fine and its healthy for the competition.

[f22flyboy]

Originally posted by Ken L
This thread reminds me time this summer when I was completely silent and didn’t make any post on the CD forum, and a post I did about it. It’s buried in the forum some where, and it was so nicely called a “novel” by JosephM .

Anyway, here is some part of it:

I used to read threads, and usually ended up shaking my head from time to time thinking, “Why are people doing this?” At the end, after months of frustration and disappointment, I took the easy way out and ignored most parts.

But then I start thinking, how can I believe in the benefit of the forum when I don’t even go in there anymore? How can I recommend them to fellow FIRST participants when I don’t even want anything to do with those places anymore? As a mentor in FIRST, am I really doing others any good by introducing them into such a hostile environment where they only learn to talk the same way with the same attitude?


I remember the good old times when I was eager to go into the forum and see people talking about interesting issues. I was too afraid to post replies, and was silently reading posts after posts learning whatever I can to prepare myself to enter one of the most exciting places in FIRST community, arming myself with basic knowledge of just about everything, and making sure I sort out my own line of thinking/feeling before I form my voice. And it was a wonderful experience. I ended up posting 2nd most at the 2001 season, and made lots and lots of friends here and there online or at competition. I heard many similar comments from lots of those friends. And I thank all the other posters on the forum for showing me how wonderful the CD forum is.

But now… somehow, all of those seems to have faded away. Well, I guess I can’t say all, but definitely a lot of them.

I start thinking about the role I want to take in FIRST and in other places, and I remember how much fun it was to inspire people, and teach them new things. It was truly exciting when I show the students the competition, the robots, the forum and chatroom, and maybe other neat stuff in FIRST. I really believe education and inspiration is the path of life I want to take.

Believe it or not, when we register for this forum, and posted the first word in one of the forums, we took on a little of the responsibility of showing others what’s the right thing to say. Lots and lots of viewers who come in here to read the forum look up to us for good ideas and data, because when we started showing our voices in the FIRST community in the forum/chatroom, we became sort of a role model, for newer members to come in and see, what’s the proper way to have intellectual discussions about something we are really excited about. The newer members look at what’s posted/said in the forum/chatroom to see how people are supposed to expression opinions and communicate. In a way, we are all teachers from the beginning we stop being a reader and start being a poster.


So start posting and show a good example to others ;-). We have a job to do, if we want something to happen the way we want it to. I always though, “if you want something bad enough, you can work hard to make it happen.” Talk to people, have interesting discussions, show your voice in the good ways you are supposed to. Make an example, and start influencing and inspiring others. There are lots of teams out there waiting to benefit from the CD forum just the way we benefit when we started.

It is an important task we are taking on right now, whether you realize it or not. The subtle ways in which we express ourselves form a voice in the FIRST community that others look up to and learn from.

Its going to take a while… But, I really do hope we can restore this forum and the chat room to what they are supposed to be… Places for intelligent discussions about this competition, really good ways to meet others with similar passion, and a fun learning experience where we can learn, share, and inspire ourselves and others.

And that continue to be my wishes…

Please note that, it is not up to yourself and yourself only to make things better. After all, the forum and chat room are formed by many people when they wanted to share their experience with others. Not anyone of us can be expected to change the way everybody acts… But get this: if EVERYONE of us want it enough, it will happen.

brevity is the key to effective communication

j/k

[Elgin Clock]

This question is for all of you who have seen a change in the spirit of FIRST.

Do you think this started because of the qualifying rule that was imposed last year or do you feel it is just something that comes with the passage of time and the fact that FIRST is growing at an enormous rate??
I have to admit that when I joined 3 years ago it was nice to know that even though a team lost at an event and had extremely bad luck that they got to go to the big event anyways, but with the inception of the qualifying rule.. well let's just say that changed a little.
One of the things that I liked about FIRST was the fact that even though you did really bad at a regional, you could still make it to the nationals where the slate was cleared.
It made the event unique, I don't think there are much events do that in the world, sporting or otherwise.

I realize that the qualification rule is a financial and space saving necessity but do you think it took a little away from FIRST??? Just a thought.

As for gracious professionalism, I do think that it is lost a little on newbies (and others sometimes) but that's what our job as experienced FIRSTers is, to try and pass down this important value.

[Andy Grady]

Hi All,

I have been on these boards since their inception way back in the rookie years of team number 47. In my time i have seen 9 games come and go. I have seen FIRST grow from a competition involving one regional tornement, and one national tornement, to the massive operation you see today. I have seen the game get tougher, more complicated, and more interesting every year. I have also seen what many others have seen in the fact that the ideals of people in FIRST are changing. We live in a competitive world. FIRST is changing to adjust to the world in order to promote science and technology by making the games more TV friendly as well as more exciting. Back in the early years, the ideas were small, the community was non-exsistant. Over the years, because of forums like this one which we express and share our ideas, FIRST has evolved from the simple engineering competition that it was, to encompass not only a competition aspect, but also a personal aspect. I have made dozens of friends through FIRST as well as many others. FIRST is growing, the students, engineers, and community members are growing. Its all about growth...its all about change. The idea of gracious professionalism has never changed, though the use of the idea has become blurred from time to time. FIRST can only preach gracious professionalism so much, the rest of it becomes the responsibility of those who have been around long enough to set the example. As FIRST changes, as it has changed over the years, as it will continue to change, it is up to us to continue to promote gracious professionalism. When we speak on these boards, and when we are at competition we must remember what Woodie says..."act as if our grandmother was watching us." For FIRST to grow, and gracious professionalism to be upheld, we can't rely on FIRST to change the way they approach things to promote it, we must promote it ourselves.

Remember this when you are at the competitions, or speaking on this board...it'll make life much more fun for everyone involved...and it will make life easier on the good people at FIRST who are struggling enough to bring us a fun exciting game, and promote science and technology.

Good Luck to Everyone
Andy Grady

[Patrick Wang]

I thank everyone for posting their opinions regarding this message.

Perhaps it is in fact the high volume of new teams that seem to make the board all the more "busy" and consequently more people need to hear the message of gracious professionalism.

I'll bet that this conversation will recur year to year, as the message must be communicated in one way or another.

Thanks all, It' good to hear that the spirit is still alive and well, now we just need to make sure that we are persistent enough to make every new generation understand this message.

[Scooter]

I would have to agree with some of the comments here.

I think that the gp is infectious. If we can all think back to our freshman year, I bet many of us were more into the competition portion of it. If you were to come back in a year and talk to some of these people, I bet you would see an apparent shift toward gp. The intent of the program is to instill these values, and that is what is being done. I think that once a person has gone to a competition and seen that if you need a new motor or solenoid, that another team will give you one, this will change them. That is where the infection starts. Come back in 2 years, and they might be complaining of a lack of gp in new rookie teams. I guess what I am trying to say is that it just takes time, and if we give it time, we will see results.

OK, I am tired and it is late...Time for me to go to bed.

Bill B.

[Jason Haaga]

I would have to say many of you should take note of what Todd said earlier in this thread. It is healthy for the competition. FIRST has many facets, none of which should be discounted. The spirit of community and learning you all speak of is not mutually exclusive with competition. You'll find despite the competitive nature and trash talk that there isn't a single team out there who isn't willing to help another in a pinch. Many of us have scrambled to help get opponents ready for the next match without even the slightest second thought. Hell, we even get along with 121 when one of us needs help or we're assigned together. The fact that we've traded less than kind words makes little difference to either side; any negativity gets stowed in two seconds flat. That's what many of you fail to realize: competition strengthens the spirit of FIRST by testing gracious professionalism, by making us go against each other one round and then work together 20 minutes later. It teaches us how to compete with people we may not get along with and against those that we do. I'm not defending half the posts that have been made, but I do feel, however, the competitive aspect of FIRST has been getting a nice thrashing it definately doesn't deserve lately. FIRST is a competition; play to win when appropriate but never forget what you already won in those first six weeks.

[EvilInside]

Well, I feel I have to add my two cents. I, though a veteran of FIRST and team leader, have a major focus on winning. I have a major focus on the competition, because that is where everyone who worked so hard on their robot gets to see the culmination(sp?) of their efforts. I worry about the awards, because there are a few people I've talked to that wouldn't be nice to other teams, wouldn't be helpful to other teams, if they didn't get an award out of it. Now, even though I focus on my "beloved" competition, that doesn't mean that I don't understand the spirit of FIRST. Quite on the contrary. If any of the rookie teams wanted a little help, a little advice, I would be more than happy to help. I'm not going to pretend to be this good and perfect person, and pretend that I "look past the competition" because I don't. I have a competitive attitude towards life in general, and the competition is where I feel most at home at. Now, don't get me wrong, if asked I would probably spend more time helping out in other teams pits than my own, but that is because the more competitive other teams are the more fun the competition is, and if I can help out someone else, if I can make a small difference in improving the attitude of someone else, I feel better too. Now, we all have championed FIRST in many different ways and places, but how many of us believe it? I do, to a degree, but lately when I talk to a reporter for the local newspaper, my championing of FIRST sounds pretty canned. Because it really is. FIRST is great the way it is, we don't NEED to talk about how great it is. Talking does nothing except maybe help out your concience a bit. Saying FIRST is great doesn't mean it is, just like sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken. FIRST is great whether or not people say out loud it is, because just being a part of it is tribute enough.

[adunakin]

Yes FIRST is a great experience, but I believe we DO need to talk about it and tell everyone we know how great it is. It's like a camp I went to as a kid. Everyone was always saying it was the best camp in the country so everyone believed it!

I guess the overall philosophy of our team is the same as we say in our fundraising letter, "The object of the team is not to design, build and compete a robot, it is to design, build and compete students." If after four years we have opened a student's eyes to the infinite possibilities they have in their life, it is worth all the effort. GP is a means to the end.