LAS VEGAS REGIONAL... terminated?

[apples000]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Too big to fail implies that this single regional would have a direct, immeadiate negative impact on FRC. If the LV RPC can close the gap in sponsorship dollars over the next two years and keep filling slots like it has been, it's no more or less viable than any other regional. I believe LVR seats above the average regional size, and on top of that the event likely counts for more "non-KOP" registrations (not rookie/1st event) than KOP registrations, which financially makes it more viable for HQ since they pocket all of that juicy registration coin. While I personally don't have the books for LVR in front of me, I gather that the event does or at least easily attain a favorable financial standing as a regional event.

It seems the real crux is keeping teams in the program. On one hand, if you can't keep teams sustainable outside of a precious few, maybe you need to look at a different strategy. On the other hand, we talk a lot about how difficult it is to bring back a team from a school that wasn't ready for an FRC team. Is LVR really at a point where you would rather have an exponentially more negative impact of removing an entire regional and its operations than try to make it work?

I agree with everything you've written. Keeping teams in is really important, and not all schools are ready for a team. Sure, LVR might not be profitable this year, but if FIRST truly believes that these regionals in 'less populated' areas cannot be sustainable, then we have a much bigger problem. I believe FIRST knows that eventually LVR will be a good thing, but they think using resources elsewhere will get more growth.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by apples000

I agree with everything you've written. Keeping teams in is really important, and not all schools are ready for a team. Sure, LVR might not be profitable this year, but if FIRST truly believes that these regionals in 'less populated' areas cannot be sustainable, then we have a much bigger problem. I believe FIRST knows that eventually LVR will be a good thing, but they think using resources elsewhere will get more growth.

Well it seems like LVR has had sponsorship issues for consecutive years for this to even be discussed. But removing the existence of an entire regional and its support staff (RD, Senior Mentor) is really, really drastic.

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

... But removing the existence of an entire regional and its support staff (RD, Senior Mentor) is really, really drastic.

Not sure anyone said the RD or Senior Mentor were being removed.

As part of a regional planning committee (or two) I can tell you it is really, really, really tough to come up with the dollars needed to keep a regional running. For example, most members of the IERPC are volunteers and have normal jobs in addition to trying to raise funds and I imagine its the same for LVRPC. Without LVR, California teams are going to have a hard time finding places for a second play, will definitely be spilling over to AZ, CO, UTAH.

Joe, I sure hope LVR can get the funds it needs and stay in business. We attended LVR for the first time this year and had a fantastic time. It is a great venue and very well run (drive thru load in, score! ample pit and spectator space, score! great crew running the event, score!)

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by rsisk

Not sure anyone said the RD or Senior Mentor were being removed.

Pardon me if I'm off-base here but I am under the impression that without a regional to run, there is no staff needed to run anything. I am not aware of a place where there are RDs and SM but no events tied to them.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Pardon me if I'm off-base here but I am under the impression that without a regional to run, there is no staff needed to run anything. I am not aware of a place where there are RDs and SM but no events tied to them.

Will, we still have a strong presence of FLL and enough FTC teams to warrant a RD and SM. Looking at having 4-5 qualifiers for FLL and State Championship as well as an FTC event again...what happens when participants in these programs start reaching a dead end is another story.

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Pardon me if I'm off-base here but I am under the impression that without a regional to run, there is no staff needed to run anything. I am not aware of a place where there are RDs and SM but no events tied to them.

Senior mentors support all programs and Justin covers all of Nevada, so he still has plenty to do. RDs run regionals and support FRC teams (little less clear on the RD role having never been one). Like Joe says in a later post, there will be plenty to keep them busy, especially if they want to help teams survive

[N7UJJ]

One of the hardest challenges facing the FIRST community is recruiting and sustaining teams on the Native American reservations. The Flagstaff team, 2486, the Coconuts, have made supporting reservation teams a priority. Las Vegas is situated close to the Navajo, Hopi, and many of the Ute nations. Losing LVR will hamper FIRST's goal to reach out to those who can benefit the most.

[tcjinaz]

Originally Posted by N7UJJ

One of the hardest challenges facing the FIRST community is recruiting and sustaining teams on the Native American reservations. The Flagstaff team, 2486, the Coconuts, have made supporting reservation teams a priority. Las Vegas is situated close to the Navajo, Hopi, and many of the Ute nations. Losing LVR will hamper FIRST's goal to reach out to those who can benefit the most.

Time for a regional, certainly eventually a district event, in Flagstaff in the future? The Coconuts has built half a district's worth of teams lately, now it's time for their next challenge.

[mrmummert]

I've been reading this thread on and off and one thing i haven't seen mentioned about the pros and cons of
High School based events and Covention center based events is the mention of events ( a regional or district) held at a local University.

Since i don't live out there i can't speak for you local folks...but back here
in the east we attended the Virginia regional which was held at VCU and the
Chesapeake regional which was held at the University of Maryland for the first time this year.
The DC regional was also held for the first time at George Mason University this year.
I'm sure if i look them up there were others.

VCU's Siegel center is almost right in downtown Richmond....so there
wasn't a lot of room for it when it was built...but it was. Universities
tend to have larger spaces for their uses. The only downside i could see
is a University might turn down a First regional or district if it conflicted
with their Basketball schedule that time of year. Also some Universities
charge more for the use of their venue than others...but in some cases
i think its cheaper than renting a Civic center type venue.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by mrmummert

I've been reading this thread on and off and one thing i haven't seen mentioned about the pros and cons of
High School based events and Covention center based events is the mention of events ( a regional or district) held at a local University.

Since i don't live out there i can't speak for you local folks...but back here
in the east we attended the Virginia regional which was held at VCU and the
Chesapeake regional which was held at the University of Maryland for the first time this year.
The DC regional was also held for the first time at George Mason University this year.
I'm sure if i look them up there were others.

VCU's Siegel center is almost right in downtown Richmond....so there
wasn't a lot of room for it when it was built...but it was. Universities
tend to have larger spaces for their uses. The only downside i could see
is a University might turn down a First regional or district if it conflicted
with their Basketball schedule that time of year. Also some Universities
charge more for the use of their venue than others...but in some cases
i think its cheaper than renting a Civic center type venue.

The regional started at UNLV at the Thomas and Mack Arena 10 years ago and we stayed there until venue rates went over $60k (now at $80k and that is with UNLV discount. We moved to small convention center with rental rate of $6k plus portable stands costing around $14k I believe. Community college facility alternative is no good. We lowered our regional cost significantly over the last 3 years. The problem continues to be difficulty getting the community to contribute more $. We added a professional fund raiser to our board and fund generation prospects look better now, however, FIRST wants a guarantee right now that our regional will be 100% covered by local sponsors. You can't guarantee sponsor pledges will come through as many of you may know...

[seg9585]

And here I was thinking how great Vegas would be to hold future FRC Championship events. Vegas has so much hotel capacity, such large convention centers and arenas, and is easily accessible by air from everywhere.

Vegas was our go-to as a second regional because all other SoCal regionals filled up immediately. The Santa Barbara Regional should ease that a little next year, but travel to SB is logistically equivalent at least from where my team is located in Orange County (still need a hotel, etc).
Another reason VEgas was special was it featured so many high-caliber teams. The winners or finalists of the LA, San Diego, Inland Empire, Arizona, and Utah Regionals were all present in Vegas this year!

[mwmac]

Joe, I am really saddened to hear that the situation you predicted at LVR is perhaps becoming a reality. It seems the Tators may have had their first and last visit to Vegas unless First sees the importance of maintaining a regional that provides playing opportunities for teams throughout the less densely populated areas of the intermountain west, (not to mention teams from Hawaii and beyond).

With the formation of the PNW district, the coming formation of the California district/s and the potential termination of the Las Vegas regional, the Tators choices for a second event will require driving to Denver (830 miles one way) Phoenix (until it goes districts, 907 miles one way) and Calgary (956 miles one way). First's motivation for implementing districts may be as a means of reducing costs per play for teams within district model areas but for teams in areas that do not have the population density to support a district model, our costs of competition in a second event are being raised substantially.

[tcjinaz]

Originally Posted by seg9585

And here I was thinking how great Vegas would be to hold future FRC Championship events. Vegas has so much hotel capacity, such large convention centers and arenas, and is easily accessible by air from everywhere.

Vegas was our go-to as a second regional because all other SoCal regionals filled up immediately. The Santa Barbara Regional should ease that a little next year, but travel to SB is logistically equivalent at least from where my team is located in Orange County (still need a hotel, etc).
Another reason VEgas was special was it featured so many high-caliber teams. The winners or finalists of the LA, San Diego, Inland Empire, Arizona, and Utah Regionals were all present in Vegas this year!

Vegas is probably not really thrilled about the business generated by FIRST. In my field, the IEEE/ACM Design Automation Conference is the place to be in June. It used to be in Vegas fairly regularly (my first in 1982), but around 2001 the hotels/casinos started looking at how much "side" (gambling) business was being generated and decided DAC was not profitable enough for them, and it has not been back since.