LAS VEGAS REGIONAL... terminated?

[Bob Steele]

My suggestion would be to try and find out if any of FIRST's major supporters have major conventions in LV. If they do... they might be able to put some pressure on local concerns regarding supporting the FIRST Regional.

If LV were to drop a big convention... it could cost them millions in revenue.
Supporting FIRST is such a small piece ....
Are there any big LV conventions that have a Tech orientation...you might be able to use that as a way for LV to see that this is good for them.

$100,000 in support is really a drop in the bucket for some of these venues.
I am not sure how to do it but trying to find a way of appealing to any kinds of tech things that happen there might be an idea.

[Lil' Lavery]

Some of the entertainment options in Vegas do employ engineers, namely some of the bigger stage shows. I know Cirque du Soleil used to be represented on the FRC GDC. I wonder if approaching these directly may be more beneficial?

Originally Posted by Cory

I'm not sure where else you could do it besides Reno, which is also big on casinos and entertainment.

I realize Reno is also a gambling/entertainment driven city, but perhaps the University of Nevada, Reno may be a more affordable venue or more generous sponsor than UNLV? Same can be said for other universities around the state, even if they're in lesser known locations. MAR Championship has been held in a relatively remote location (Bethlehem, PA) the past two years because the venue price was substantially lower than Philadelphia. I was checking to see if this was an avenue the LVRPC has explored.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Some of the entertainment options in Vegas do employ engineers, namely some of the bigger stage shows. I know Cirque du Soleil used to be represented on the FRC GDC. I wonder if approaching these directly may be more beneficial?



I realize Reno is also a gambling/entertainment driven city, but perhaps the University of Nevada, Reno may be a more affordable venue or more generous sponsor than UNLV? Same can be said for other universities around the state, even if they're in lesser known locations. MAR Championship has been held in a relatively remote location (Bethlehem, PA) the past two years because the venue price was substantially lower than Philadelphia. I was checking to see if this was an avenue the LVRPC has explored.

Cirque is a sponsor our regional for $10k and the affiliated SoloTec that helps produce their shows provides us under cost AV for venue...and helps to make the regional a top notch event. Reno has no teams and is barely able to support an FLL and FTC event. Given FIRST's concern that growth hasn't been strong enough I don't think they would endorse moving the regional to Reno even if they had a workable venue. There are only two universities in the state and the few smaller colleges do not have venues that fit our needs. The only facility at UNLV that can handle an event is the aforementioned Thomas and Mack, not owned by the university, with a 20k seat arena that has gotten way to expensive for us to use (great when we had it though ) The attached Cox Pavilion is too small to host an event.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

My suggestion would be to try and find out if any of FIRST's major supporters have major conventions in LV. If they do... they might be able to put some pressure on local concerns regarding supporting the FIRST Regional.

If LV were to drop a big convention... it could cost them millions in revenue.
Supporting FIRST is such a small piece ....
Are there any big LV conventions that have a Tech orientation...you might be able to use that as a way for LV to see that this is good for them.

$100,000 in support is really a drop in the bucket for some of these venues.
I am not sure how to do it but trying to find a way of appealing to any kinds of tech things that happen there might be an idea.

There are many major tech related conventions and we have pitched support for our regional many times. My team is usually the team that attends and represents local robotics efforts and FIRST Nevada with demos and positive interaction with major companies present and the group putting on the shows hasn't born fruit yet (even with follow up of course). Minor support for our team has resulted a few times, but no luck getting support for our regional.

Starting to sound like I am defensive so I am going to back off on explanations for awhile. Everybody's suggestions have been and still are appreciated...keep up the sharing of ideas as something positive may come of the exchange of ideas!

[Scott_4140]

The LV Convention Center covers many of the large conventions. Sounds like you're well connected there. There are many more conventions that deal directly with the larger hotel chains. The convention center is not going to have listings for those conventions.

The convention center and the hotels are not typically the promoters of the event. They may be willing to connect you, although I'm guessing they're going to hold their contacts pretty tight to the vest. Fortunately, most of the promoters are actively on the internet promoting their conventions. Once you have a list of all the technical ones in town, you should be able to dig up your own contact list.

This should be straight forward for any going through the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority. This will get you about half of your potential targets. Beyond that, you'll need to search the larger hotels with convention facilities.

Demonstrations at the events are going to connect you with the attending companies. Unless they're from Las Vegas, you're not going to get much direct support there. It does help the general visibility of FIRST.

[AdamHeard]

I think what we should be focusing on here is not what the Vegas planning community can do to raise more money (they seem like they know their stuff and are working on it), but rather the rationale of cancelling an event that in theory is profitable.

[Scott_4140]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I think what we should be focusing on here is not what the Vegas planning community can do to raise more money (they seem like they know their stuff and are working on it), but rather the rationale of cancelling an event that in theory is profitable.

There are lots of potential behind the scenes motives. We will never know unless FIRST decides to share.

To be efficient FIRST needs to manage all the events like a business. This appears to be the main factor here. Low performing "stores" get closed, so you can open at a different location just a block away. So the block here, is in anther state. Case by case handling sets a precedent they may not want to deal with.

If you look at the CA District angle, this is one more incentive to push CA into the District model. Forces CA to get it done! It's in their best interest to if Las Vegas might go away.

This is only 2 of dozens of potential motives.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Scott_4140

If you look at the CA District angle, this is one more incentive to push CA into the District model. Forces CA to get it done! It's in their best interest to if Las Vegas might go away.

NO. No it's not.

Hurt teams (who mostly have no idea about these goings on) to force a point?

I know that can't possibly be FIRST's motive.

[JB987]

Thank you Adam

[sanddrag]

FWIW doesn't Autodesk host their annual "University" in Vegas?

[Mark Sheridan]

Originally Posted by Scott_4140

There are lots of potential behind the scenes motives. We will never know unless FIRST decides to share.

To be efficient FIRST needs to manage all the events like a business. This appears to be the main factor here. Low performing "stores" get closed, so you can open at a different location just a block away. So the block here, is in anther state. Case by case handling sets a precedent they may not want to deal with.

If you look at the CA District angle, this is one more incentive to push CA into the District model. Forces CA to get it done! It's in their best interest to if Las Vegas might go away.

This is only 2 of dozens of potential motives.

The real customer is the teams. If regionals competed with other with entry fees, Las Vegas would be at the top with the highest demand. What we have is that a highly demanded product but it gets money from other sources. Teams love this regional, its a shame there are not enough sponsors to help. If team demand translate to more money for the regional, this regional would be fine but the business model is not set up that way.

To be fair most Californians would consider Nevada part of our community and vice-versa. Especially those in So Cal, Las Vegas is a second home. A So Cal Joke is that Las Vegas (Clark County) is part of the Greater Los Angelas Area. I am pretty sure a lot of California teams want to keep going to Las Vegas even when California has Districts.

In regards to the slow process of California getting districts I just wanted to add to Eric's point that a lot of high schools in California only have one gym. Almost every sport is practiced outside in California. If there is a school assembly, its held outside. School dances often happen off campus. Cafeterias are extremely rare in California. So typical California high schools only have one large building on campus.

[Scott_4140]

Originally Posted by Mark Sheridan

The real customer is the teams. If regionals competed with other with entry fees, Las Vegas would be at the top with the highest demand. What we have is that a highly demanded product but it gets money from other sources. Teams love this regional, its a shame there are not enough sponsors to help. If team demand translate to more money for the regional, this regional would be fine but the business model is not set up that way.

You need to get inside FIRST's head as to what "performing" might mean in this context. Certainly they are financially motivated, but that's only part of the formula.

As someone else posted, FIRST is trying to implement a culture change. Growth is most important. There are many ways to measure this growth. Number of teams, number of students, number of volunteers, number of sponsors...

If a regional can't pull in the sponsors needed to support it, that's going to be a red flag for FIRST. We've already established that Las Vegas is not an Engineering focal point.

FIRST also has criteria for new regionals based on the number of local teams. Does Las Vegas meet this criteria? If not, it's another red flag.

If CA is the main supplier of out of state teams for Las Vegas then any new regional in AZ or CA nets FIRST the same money.

MN organizes regionals a little different than most. We have one group that does all 4 MN regionals. If Duluth was organized on it's own, I don't think it would have the success it does today. Maybe Las Vegas needs to partner with one or more of the CA regional planners. The combined support of those CA companies that want to support the CA teams may save Las Vegas.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Scott_4140

You need to get inside FIRST's head as to what "performing" might mean in this context. Certainly they are financially motivated, but that's only part of the formula.

As someone else posted, FIRST is trying to implement a culture change. Growth is most important. There are many ways to measure this growth. Number of teams, number of students, number of volunteers, number of sponsors...

If a regional can't pull in the sponsors needed to support it, that's going to be a red flag for FIRST. We've already established that Las Vegas is not an Engineering focal point.

FIRST also has criteria for new regionals based on the number of local teams. Does Las Vegas meet this criteria? If not, it's another red flag.

If CA is the main supplier of out of state teams for Las Vegas then any new regional in AZ or CA nets FIRST the same money.

MN organizes regionals a little different than most. We have one group that does all 4 MN regionals. If Duluth was organized on it's own, I don't think it would have the success it does today. Maybe Las Vegas needs to partner with one or more of the CA regional planners. The combined support of those CA companies that want to support the CA teams may save Las Vegas.

You're not making any sense... so you're saying that FIRST should focus exclusively on the areas that already have a lot of willing sponsors and engineering support? How is that causing any culture change?

[Scott_4140]

Originally Posted by bduddy

You're not making any sense... so you're saying that FIRST should focus exclusively on the areas that already have a lot of willing sponsors and engineering support? How is that causing any culture change?

You need to play some strategy games! It's about resource management. You can't win every battle you enter. You need to focus you energy/resources/influence where it will net you the largest return. As your influence increases, and the culture changes, it's easier to win over areas that you could not win before.

And no, there's not just one factor. There are no "exclusives". Sponsors and engineering support are only part of the equation. If there were 25 teams in the area, Las Vegas would probably get more time and money from FIRST. They'd still probably get a deadline for being self sufficient. As it stands, 8 teams and continued lack of support puts the regional at risk. There are probably many more factors like volunteer support, strength of the planning organization, and venue.

I think the minimum number of local teams for a new regional is 12. So even picking up 3 more teams wouldn't qualify if it was a new regional trying to come online.

What's the actual formula? No idea. FIRST obviously has one. I doubt its arbitrary. The formula also changes over time. Otherwise, there never would have been a regional in Las Vegas to begin with. The bar is always moving.

Growing the number of local teams has got to help. Getting more financial support obviously helps. If they can't get the financial support the level that FIRST wants, is there a combination of other factors that will buy them another year? Probably.

[Chief Hedgehog]

The conversation in this thread concerns me. I know that Las Vegas is a completely different nut to crack - but how is FIRST looking to hedge their bets against something like this happening in other areas?

Obviously the District format is preferential in areas that have many established FRC teams. But those are not spread evenly across the country. My concern (selfishly) is - what happens in Minnesota? If this can happen in LV, this could happen in a place like Duluth, MN.

The reason I state this is because LV is dependent upon tourism, conventions, etc. Now that it is 'safe' to have conventions in LV again, a lot more money pours in from entities that can out-spend FIRST. I don't know if this is the case, but I do know my wife's company is holding a convention back in LV after a 5 year hiatus. And there is no way that FIRST can outbid my wife's company.

Take that to a smaller scale - like Duluth, MN - if tourism takes an upswing as the economy stabilizes, what happens to FRC events that took advantage of low cost arenas that can now claim a premium? Now companies and conventions have the capital to take advantage of low cost arenas and outbid FRC events.

I do not wish to see MN lose regionals - and we are not ready to go to the district formula (even though we now have 186 teams). We don't have the volunteer levels to support districts. Maybe a move to St Cloud or Rochester is in order?