[FRC Blog] Frank Answers Fridays: June 13, 2014

[Thad House]

I know that in the PNW they actually sent invitations out to the top 40 teams after week 5, because those teams were mathematically guaranteed a spot, with only one week 6 event taking place.

The main timing problems for us come between the DCMP and Worlds. Since we are way out on the other corner of the country, driving to worlds is not an option. The only chance we get is flying, and by that time tickets are very expensive. For us moving the state championship earlier would help a little, but even a week does not equal much different costs in airfare, so I don't know what else we could do out here to reduce those costs.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Originally Posted by Thad House

I know that in the PNW they actually sent invitations out to the top 40 teams after week 5, because those teams were mathematically guaranteed a spot, with only one week 6 event taking place.

The main timing problems for us come between the DCMP and Worlds. Since we are way out on the other corner of the country, driving to worlds is not an option. The only chance we get is flying, and by that time tickets are very expensive. For us moving the state championship earlier would help a little, but even a week does not equal much different costs in airfare, so I don't know what else we could do out here to reduce those costs.

I heard something about PDX tickets being too troublesome to reserve for FIRSTWA/ORFIRST - that's why the only reserved tickets available were out of Seattle. I think for the district model to really work, they'd need to reserve tickets for everyone - buying tickets on that kind of short notice (or alternatively driving obscenely early up to Seattle) isn't realistic for a lot of teams.

[EricH]

A proposal, for use by Districts when going to Championship:

Let the district area buy airfare for their team allotment, or partial airfare rather, as well as hotel rooms. Let's assume 10 "standard" teams worth. (For this purpose, 1 "standard" team is defined as 16 students and 2-4 teachers/mentors/chaperones, or 20 seats and 5-6 hotel rooms. YMMV, and this should be determined by the district area.) Because the district area can buy earlier, and is buying a larger amount of seats and hotel rooms, the costs would presumably be somewhat cheaper due to both timing and volume. The teams then reimburse the district area and pay for any extra rooms/seats.

Now, there are going to be some problems. For example, not all the district teams will have the same convenience level at any given airport. For another, apportioning the rooms to the teams may be a very "interesting" process. OTOH, if the district areas are creative in how they handle this sort of thing, it can be a huge benefit.

Of course, for the DCMPs, it's a hair easier. Just gotta reserve a bunch of block hotel rooms near the venue for longer-traveling teams, no flights needed, and again, have the teams reimburse the district and pay for any extras.

[Link07]

Pretty thankful that MAR has mitigated this problem greatly by hosting no Week 6 district. Even with the planned addition of a new district event next year, we tend to stay away from Easter weekend (Week 6) anyway. We saw a lower number of DCMP declines this year as compared to 2013, partially for this reason.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by Link07

Pretty thankful that MAR has mitigated this problem greatly by hosting no Week 6 district. Even with the planned addition of a new district event next year, we tend to stay away from Easter weekend (Week 6) anyway. We saw a lower number of DCMP declines this year as compared to 2013, partially for this reason.

I think the move to no Week 6 this year was a great idea on MAR's part. (1923 got an invite on the load-in-day of MARCMP in 2013, this year we had a week+ to plan. Definitely way better.)

However, that doesn't help the second problem of this schedule - Week 7 qualifications to CMP, which arguably is way harder to plan. I like some of the ideas I've seen above about the district reserving plane seats, hotel blocks, etc for teams and then waiting to offer them to teams that need them. It'd be a great help to take something off the plate of teams that are already scrambling.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by EricH

A proposal, for use by Districts when going to Championship:

Let the district area buy airfare for their team allotment, or partial airfare rather, as well as hotel rooms.

That's a cool idea. Is there a way to buy tickets without locking in the passenger names, though? I know that airlines are completely unwilling to transfer tickets from one person to another.

[John Retkowski]

It seems to me like the simplest thing is to just move world championships back a week. Why would you try to changed every event around instead of just one? Of course I have no idea what the situation is with scheduling for St. Louis. Or there may just be something else I'm overlooking entirely.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by John Retkowski

It seems to me like the simplest thing is to just move world championships back a week. Why would you try to changed every event around instead of just one? Of course I have no idea what the situation is with scheduling for St. Louis. Or there may just be something else I'm overlooking entirely.

I believe the week after Worlds is AP Testing week.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by dodar

I believe the week after Worlds is AP Testing week.

There's a week in between Championship and AP Testing, but you don't want students taking an AP test the day after coming back tired from St. Louis.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by John Retkowski

It seems to me like the simplest thing is to just move world championships back a week. Why would you try to changed every event around instead of just one? Of course I have no idea what the situation is with scheduling for St. Louis. Or there may just be something else I'm overlooking entirely.

Moving it back 1-2 weeks interferes with AP testing, then most high schools graduate between the third week of May and second week of June. The only place to move championship "back" to is the last week of June. That would affect over a dozen offseason events, but holding the last weekend in April will become more untenable as championship bids start going out later and later in the season.

[Jscout11]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Moving it back 1-2 weeks interferes with AP testing, then most high schools graduate between the third week of May and second week of June. The only place to move championship "back" to is the last week of June. That would affect over a dozen offseason events, but holding the last weekend in April will become more untenable as championship bids start going out later and later in the season.

I envy places that get out mid-May to mid-June. For us, graduation IS that last week of June. I would also imagine this would interfere with college orientations and the like.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Jscout11

I envy places that get out mid-May to mid-June. For us, graduation IS that last week of June. I would also imagine this would interfere with college orientations and the like.

Do they block in time for snow or ??? 422's high school just graduated yesterday and I seriously thought that was late.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Do they block in time for snow or ??? 422's high school just graduated yesterday and I seriously thought that was late.

Not really. Most districts have ~6 snow days built in to the schedule, and you'll either get a day or two back Memorial Day or lose a day somewhete. I've never heard of a school in this area ending before June 20th

[Cory]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Do they block in time for snow or ??? 422's high school just graduated yesterday and I seriously thought that was late.

Schools that start after Labor Day often end at the end of June.

[Foster]

Originally Posted by Cory

Schools that start after Labor Day often end at the end of June.

Just wanted to plus this post. Schools openings are earlier and earlier for some reason, but the result on the other end is Graduations well before Memorial day. But at the current pace of moving forward one day per year means that the FIRST season will occur over "summer break" starting in 2050.

I was a regular attendee at school board meetings where I was told that parents wanted the earlier end date. So I would do a "show of hands - who didn't understand that a 1 June school end date would mean a 25 August start date" and get a room full of parent to stick their hands up.

For what it's worth, VEX has a 25 day gap between the last world event qualifier and the championship. That solved a lot of travel problems.