Axis camera mount

[Certified Nerd]

Danny from team 3840

I recently overhauled my adjustable locking camera mount that I posted here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:248033. The new design is more printer friendly and has tightening slots for both ranges of motion. My question is: If I listed complete mounts on eBay would any teams be interested in buying them? If so how much would they be willing to pay? If I post the update on thingiverse are there any teams that don't have ready access to 3d printing and would still buy them?

[Tungrus]

Nice looking product. Instructions says hot glue the camera, would it be possible to use a nylon end cap nut to secure the camera. The bolt/screw sticking out of camera is grounded and we cannot let that thingy touch the frame when camera is powered up.

Personally I wouldn't buy on eBay (gosh my payment info and address is in every other country!), prefer on AndyMark, but if its coming from from FRC team I may go to eBay.

[Tungrus]

Well, instead of end cap nut, is it possible to create snap-lock in your design itself? And make sure the metal thingy sticking out of camera is not exposed. Also would it be possible to have mounts for LED rings? Yeah its my wish list, makes life easier though.

[Joe Ross]

Before you start selling, it may be worth reviewing the definition of VENDOR in the FRC manual and associated rules.

[Certified Nerd]

My shift key doesn't work.

I'm actually working on using the screw on the back to secure it.
Can i get in trouble for selling accessories to teams even if i don't claim to be affiliated with FIRST.9 By the way, the one i'm sitting on is much better than the one on thingiverse. It's an updated version that i haven't uploaded yet.

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by Certified Nerd

My shift key doesn't work.

I'm actually working on using the screw on the back to secure it.
Can i get in trouble for selling accessories to teams even if i don't claim to be affiliated with FIRST.9 By the way, the one i'm sitting on is much better than the one on thingiverse. It's an updated version that i haven't uploaded yet.

No, you won't get in trouble. What does happen is that since you aren't a legal vendor, your parts don't count as COTS items, but rather fabricated items. As such, they may not be used on a legal robot if they're designed/manufactured after kickoff. However, I have been curious...if you release CAD models publicly, can you use them in the regular season? There's an explicit exception for software, but I seem to recall "designs" being allowed as well if they're shared before kickoff.

[Certified Nerd]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

No, you won't get in trouble. What does happen is that since you aren't a legal vendor, your parts don't count as COTS items, but rather fabricated items. As such, they may not be used on a legal robot if they're designed/manufactured after kickoff. However, I have been curious...if you release CAD models publicly, can you use them in the regular season? There's an explicit exception for software, but I seem to recall "designs" being allowed as well if they're shared before kickoff.

what about parts i made last year for my team, are those legal this year What if i finish the design after kickoff and release it then, will that be legal?

[Certified Nerd]

So are we not allowed to use things designed off season? If so what about other thingiverse designs people use, not to mention things reused from year to year like custom crab drive modules or complete drive trains.

[Certified Nerd]

I think I miss understood; you're saying I need to make it public before kickoff for it to be a legal part, right? And after kickoff people can download it but not buy it? I did share it with some other teams last season and the inspectors didn't say anything.

[Nyle]

R13 D exempts all software and designs with source files publicly available before kickoff from not being allowed if designed before the season.

So as long as you post the source files, which in this case would be the CAD files to Thingierse, CD, or some other public location before the season starts you are free to use it on your robot as a manufactured part.

Without doing that you would either have to meet FIRST's criteria for a vendor, in which case your team could get one and use it as a COTS part, or make another improved version after the season starts. The latter option is allowed by Example 1 in the blue box for R13, but you'd probably need to make some significant improvements if you were to go this route—making small or pointless changes would be questionably legal and likely frowned upon.

Granted, this is all assuming that the whatever the equivalent of R13 is next year is the same. We won't be able to say for sure until kickoff.

[EricH]

Nyle got most of what I was going to go into, so I'm going to home in on some questions.

Note: R13 hasn't changed significantly, other than exactly which rule number it is, in years. However, that was also said about the size rules prior to the 2013 season (which then saw the size rules change).

Originally Posted by Certified Nerd

what about parts i made last year for my team, are those legal this year

Not if it was used on the robot (unused parts that are publicly available, at least in design, are generally considered to be OK). R13 is quite clear. Particularly see the first paragraph of its blue box.

Originally Posted by Certified Nerd

So are we not allowed to use things designed off season? If so what about other thingiverse designs people use, not to mention things reused from year to year like custom crab drive modules or complete drive trains.

Again, see R13, but this time focus on R13D. If it's publicly available, it's fair game (provided that the particular item in question was not built for a previous robot, but built anew for the current robot). Incidentally, if someone is simply reusing a custom drivetrain (as in, not modifying it, redesigning it or otherwise reworking it or rebuilding it), I'd like to have a little chat with them with my neon yellow hat on about the implications of R13 on their design/build process.

Originally Posted by Certified Nerd

I think I miss understood; you're saying I need to make it public before kickoff for it to be a legal part, right? And after kickoff people can download it but not buy it?

Yes and No. For a fabricated item of this sort, either it needs to be public before Kickoff or designed/built after Kickoff. In this case, the former applies. Once it's uploaded, people can download the plan. If you happen to be a VENDOR or partnered with a VENDOR (Hint: AndyMark does sell items that were developed by teams), then people can buy the item; otherwise, I would err on the side of caution and not sell.

[Certified Nerd]

Originally Posted by EricH

Again, see R13, but this time focus on R13D. If it's publicly available, it's fair game (provided that the particular item in question was not built for a previous robot, but built anew for the current robot). Incidentally, if someone is simply reusing a custom drivetrain (as in, not modifying it, redesigning it or otherwise reworking it or rebuilding it), I'd like to have a little chat with them with my neon yellow hat on about the implications of R13 on their design/build process.

I don't know why I said complete drivetrain, we don't do that and I've never seen anyone else do that. Thanks for all the tips guys.

[Certified Nerd]

I can't find the rules, can someone give me a link so I can read rule13?

[magnets]

Originally Posted by Certified Nerd

I can't find the rules, can someone give me a link so I can read rule13?

http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/

[Certified Nerd]

This rule is pretty restrictive and unenforceable. What about things like a simple frame L-bracket, a pressure gauge mount, a pulley spacer, or a mecanum wheel mount? These are all things my teem fabricates and need every year, and need to be the same . Do we have to not reuse any frame parts (hardware) that we make? I guess this means for the things we actually have CAD models of we need to make public? I guess what I'm trying find out because it's not very clear is this: does this apply to everything including simple parts or just assemblies/mechanical stuff? The spirit of the rule seems to be not reusing large chunks of design. Is it up to The inspectors to decide?