Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by Joseph Smith

I have to argue that a blanket statement like this is unwise. Everyone's situation is different. I graduated from High School in 2013 and after a year of classes at Kettering University I know I made the right choice to mentor this past season. One of the reasons I chose a B-section schedule (school in April-June and October-December and work in January-March and July-September) was so that I would be able to mentor my team during my work term. It was tiring, going from work to robotics then straight to sleep when I got home, but it was worth it. My team was very influential to me during high school and I want to make sure as many kids as possible get as much out of it as I did.

Of course it's a blanket statement! I truly believe the experiences and mistakes made going out away from FIRST for a few years will reap benefits for the team and yourself.

Also, sorry I can't stop but thinking of songs from Book of Mormon when seeing your user name.

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by Joe Matt

Did a quick post on selling shirts, so I wanted to pop my head in here and tell all the new freshman to NOT do FIRST freshman year of college. Grow, expand, learn, then come back when you can offer something new.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I don't know what I would have done if I didn't mentor FIRST. Granted, my situation was different, as I was on the team in the rookie year, and have worked through high school to expand FIRST in the area, and I was going to college at the sponsoring university of the team (I grew up in the college town). It helped keep some consistency and stability in my ever-changing life in college.

I treated it like any other organization. I stayed involved in scouting (even joined a group for scouting at the college level), I joined the marching band at WVU, and I stayed involved in FIRST. It's just like joining any other organization at the university.

However, I know a lot of FIRST mentors that have said the same. Some folks do really well mentoring FIRST in the freshman year. Some don't. It depends on the situation, and the person. But I know personally and for many of my friends that are college mentors, we know that we would have been lost without FIRST, and we wouldn't really be able to stay away anyway.

... You can grow, learn, and expand while also being involved in FIRST.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Joe Matt

Of course it's a blanket statement! I truly believe the experiences and mistakes made going out away from FIRST for a few years will reap benefits for the team and yourself.

Stayed out of mentoring FRC for a while now. Honestly could not be happier with my decision. It's amazing how much you realize you miss out on while being a dedicated mentor during build season.

[Joseph Smith]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Stayed out of mentoring FRC for a while now. Honestly could not be happier with my decision. It's amazing how much you realize you miss out on while being a dedicated mentor during build season.

I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Joseph Smith

I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.

It's easy to say you would just spend "lots of time on Netflix" if you didn't mentor a team, but you're totally missing his point. College is one of the best times in your life to try new things, meet new people, and challenge yourself in different ways. If you're putting aside all that college has to offer to try and mentor a team in college, you're missing out on these opportunities. Or worse, you try and juggle robotics + regular extracurricular activities and your grades suffer as a result.

I agree with Joe Matt, despite being a college mentor my freshman year. If I had to give general advice to students in FRC, knowing little about their situation, I would suggest a year off of full time mentoring. Mentors are different than students, and six months into college isn't a ton of time to learn, grow, and gain the life experience an adult mentor has.

All of that said, I know some people that mentor in college who can handle the responsibility, and maintain an active presence in campus extracurricular, AND get pretty good grades. These people are the exception to the rule and certainly don't need my advice. The majority of students, even the students who could do it in high school!!!, are going to struggle with this. So I'm not trying to say you specifically shouldn't mentor, but that I agree with the general advice.

I know how it is. Giving up FRC is extremely hard because frankly, at that time in your life there's not a lot else going on that feels so meaningful. For many FRC becomes part of their identity. But before you can be a really effective mentor, you have to grow up. It's hard to say I regret all of the choices that put me where I am today, but if I could do it again, I would have stuck to the sidelines and helped in a much smaller way for my first years. I wasn't ready.

[Katie_UPS]

Originally Posted by Joseph Smith

I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.

Your signature says you were a mentor for one year, so good job on getting past your first year.

College gets harder, and college is really really important. You aren't paying a lot of money to play FIRST. You are paying a lot of money to get the most out of your classes.

I've mentored for three years, and each year it gets worse. My first year it was fine, but I was a knowledge-less mentor. My second year, between robots and some other things, I had to drop two classes. Now I'm a semester behind. My third year I was a "mentor" but I wasn't around enough to become someone meaningful for my students, because I actually put school first.

And honestly, college kids don't always make the best mentors. We shouldn't make good mentors. We should be too devoted to school to give up that much time a week to be a full-time mentor. For the first half of college, we don't even know that much and are just super-high-school-seniors when it comes to robotics knowledge. We can't give that extra incite that defines a mentor from an older student.

I'm sure you, and others, are blowing off my comment because "I am not you and I will do it better". Like others said, if you can, great. But don't lie to yourself, and don't ruin your college experience because of it.

[Kimmeh]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

I've mentored for three years, and each year it gets worse. My first year it was fine, but I was a knowledge-less mentor. My second year, between robots and some other things, I had to drop two classes. Now I'm a semester behind. My third year I was a "mentor" but I wasn't around enough to become someone meaningful for my students, because I actually put school first.

I'm a mentor in name only and have been for the last four years. I'm still considered an official part of the team, and I support the team at competitions, but right now, my role has actually served more as a minion to one of our mentors than as an actual mentor to students. He runs ideas by me, and I'll take care of some of the more behind-the-scenes or off-season related activities.

I try to make a point to make it to Kickoff (where I help lead brainstorming afterwards), at least one meeting where I remind everyone about scholarships and it's where we get the group input for Woodie Flowers, and then competitions. For awards and such, I'm in email/text communication with the students that are in charge of that. If I make it to another meeting, that's great. If not, I wasn't expected anyways.


Most of us who tell you not to mentor in college truly have your best interests at heart. And we're not telling you to not be involved with FIRST while you're in college. But it really does need to take a back seat to what you're studying.


And for Kettering B-section students especially: I know how much free time you have on work term. Yes, you're not in class and can mentor more freely than you can on school term. But you could also use this time to pick up a hobby or learn something you didn't have time to do over school term. Take advantage of student discounts. (For instance, there's swing dancing groups in Ann Arbor that offer discounts to students. Go take a lesson. Or five.) Meet other people. Use this time to become a "more well rounded person". You need to come before robotics.

[cadandcookies]

It's also important to note that staying involved with FIRST does not mean you have to mentor a team. Most areas are looking for volunteers, and there are a number of ways to help teams in your area without beong a full time mentor-- for example, most teams are always looking for people to run their Chairman's presentations by.

Volunteering or generally experiencing FIRST outside of the context of a team are valuable-- not just from a "bringing something to the team," but also for gaining a broader perspective and expanding your personal network.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Joseph Smith

I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.

That's great for you. (I'm not being sarcastic). It becomes pretty easy to be content with things you're comfortable with, and not everyone regrets missing out on more than just a few higher grades, sleep, and the occasional episode of House of Cards. However, most college mentors I've met (including myself) sort of regretted missing out on important relationships and occasions because they were so heavily invested in FRC. You would miss out on teaching that group of students who will maybe be on the team for 4 years, but new students will still be there for you to inspire and teach when you're done with college. FRC will always be there, but college doesn't always last too long. I'm not totally sure if me preaching that you can always experience those "greatest experiences" later on in FRC hits home.

Just remember how much more there is to college than academic life, sleep, and heck, even Netflix . Every semester will pass by you quickly. I learned pretty quickly that, after a season of mentoring, you start regretting missing events and people because you didn't make time for them. As Chris said, there's people who are truly exceptional and can be incredibly well-rounded. They can have a meaningful college experience outside of the classroom, as well as outside of mentoring. I guess my point doesn't just pertain to students who want to mentor in college; this rings true for any college student. It's easy to mentor because it's an environment you're comfortable with and are happy with. You know you'll love it because you're passionate about it. Meeting a different variety of people and being involved in so much more than FIRST can be just as, if not more, meaningful to you if you give things a try. Being immersed in FIRST definitely becomes a part of who you are, but leave yourself space and time to explore new things you can identify yourself with.

As a legend once said:

[Basel A]

These considerations should also take into account team expectations. For example, in 2011 as a student, I put in 30+ hours a week. As a college mentor, there's no way I would've been able to do that. My team's typical mentor has a time input closer to 15 hours a week, which is comparable to a single additional class (albeit a difficult one). For me, that was very doable.

You can try to schedule extracurriculars around FRC mentoring. Many of these activities have seasons in similar ways to FRC. Look for design competitions with the main competition in the fall or early winter, or simply do more in the fall while stepping back in the winter. It should be possible to accomplish (I'm attempting this approach in the coming school year).

For anyone, being a responsible college student and dedicated FRC mentor will require thought, organization, and expectation management, but I really think it's achievable for most committed FRC alumni.

[Joseph Smith]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

It's easy to say you would just spend "lots of time on Netflix" if you didn't mentor a team, but you're totally missing his point. College is one of the best times in your life to try new things, meet new people, and challenge yourself in different ways. If you're putting aside all that college has to offer to try and mentor a team in college, you're missing out on these opportunities. Or worse, you try and juggle robotics + regular extracurricular activities and your grades suffer as a result.

I guess I didn't really make it clear that my situation is not quite the typical college schedule. At Kettering, we rotate every three months between school and work. With my schedule, I have school from October-December, work from January-March, school April-June, and work July-September. This means that during the entire build season and the first few weeks of competition season, I'm living at home and working full time at a co-op job. During build season I go to work, go right from work to robotics, then go home. Sure, I get less sleep then I'd like, but it doesn't affect my work. When the work term ends and I go back to school, I'm not involved in the team at all for those three months, just going to competitions on the weekends to watch. I agree wholeheartedly that mentoring while going to college would be extremely taxing, and not recommended. However, my situation is different. This is why I said that everyone's situation is different and blanket statements like "nobody should mentor during their first year of college" don't apply to everyone.

Also, a ton of people at Kettering were on FIRST teams and many still mentor, so we enjoy going to competitions and watching webcasts together.

[nlknauss]

Hello all - This is a topic of particular interest to me because my career has been built around mentorship because of my experiences as a FRC student and later a mentor. I'm extremely proud of all my personal accomplishments and those of the teams I've mentored. There's nothing I would go back and change.

I think the best advice I can give is to listen to yourself. If you are doing something that makes you happy and are able to maintain a healthy life then keep doing it. You're the best gauge of your own abilities and energy, so don't ignore yourself.

It also doesn't hurt to listen to feedback from others. If subtle hints of business, health, or well-being related to what your doing become persistent from co-mentors, family, and friends you may want to listen.

This is a tough topic because FIRST mentors are of the most passionate people who give back. Just do what you think is right.

Nate

[Katie_UPS]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot, and I'm shifting my stance. While I think college should be your number one top priority in school and that is enough for one to sit back and think "hmm, maybe I should put this FIRST thing on the back burner for a second," I think that there is something equally as important to consider when debating whether to mentor in college or not.

Originally Posted by nlknauss

I think the best advice I can give is to listen to yourself. If you are doing something that makes you happy and are able to maintain a healthy life then keep doing it.

I agree a lot with this statement. Also, I'm going to disagree with this statement:

If you want to mentor in college, think of all the reasons why. To make this activity more meaningful, write them down. Don't sensor them, be honest. Did you come up with all your reasons?

Write them down before you continue reading, because its only effective if you're honest and if you continue reading you won't be honest.

Count them.

Now throw that number away because it doesn't matter.

Look at your reasons. How many of your reasons are reasons that only benefit/affect you. Is the reason "because I want to stay in FIRST"? That only affect you. Is the reason "It will be fun"? Cross off those reasons.

How many reasons do you have left?

------------------------------

I'll do this activity:

Why did I want to be a mentor when I was 18 (to the best of my memory):
I wanted to still be in FIRST.
I wanted to be a successful young mentor.
I wanted to be important.
I thought it would be fun.
I wanted to say I started a team.
I had other friends that were mentoring and I wanted to mentor too.
I was told it was hard and I wanted to prove people wrong.
I wanted to be a strong female in FIRST for other girls.

Did I think about helping students, or wanting to inspire kids the way someone inspired me? Maybe. I don't remember. And honestly, I probably thought/said that because I had to. Not because it came to me naturally.

Now lets cross them off.

I wanted to still be in FIRST.
I wanted to be a successful young mentor.
I wanted to be important.
I thought it would be fun.
I wanted to say I started a team.
I had other friends that were mentoring and I wanted to mentor too.
I was told it was hard and I wanted to prove people wrong.
I wanted to be a strong female in FIRST for other girls.

------------------------------

Only half a reason exists (and I crossed off half of it because I know part of it was self-serving). I had seven -yes I know I said that number doesn't matter- and only half a reason wasn't self-centered?*

Mentoring, I've learned, is not about me (thanks Mom!). Its not about how I feel or what I'll gain from it. Its not about making me feel important or useful or letting me stay with FIRST. And most young kids who want to mentor say "because I liked FIRST and I want to stay in FIRST." Which has nothing to do with the students or their team, which is already the wrong reason to mentor.

*I am being honest and laying myself out here. I highly recommend you be brutally honest with yourself. Additionally, I don't want flack about being weak-willed or selfish because I didn't sugar coat my thoughts. We all have some ugly in us.

[Kelsey Draus]

^^ I agree with a lot of what Katie posted. Make sure you are in it for the right reasons.

The only reason I am an engineer now is because I joined a FIRST team. It put me right where I am now, graduated, working as an engineer. With that said, I mentor because it's really important for me to give back so that other kids can have the wonderful experience that I had.

I mentored pretty much all through college. My first year I helped with my old team, then I mentored for 3 years at college helping with a new team.

It can be a black hole of time. I did all mechanical stuff when I was in high school, I was one of those really dedicated-at the shop everyday- sort of kids. I knew that I wouldn't have all the time in the world in college to dedicate like I did before, so I chose to help with smaller projects.

This may be a good alternative: if you are ok with helping out with the little things! I took on smaller roles like- teaching kids how to make bumpers and marketing and award proofreading.

If you think you can control yourself from going overboard, ending up staying late at the shop everyday, and diving head first into full time mentoring, I encourage you to take a small role. Tell the team that your time is limited, and that you can't be around all the time but! that you would like to help out with A and B. Helping with bumpers, the playing field, or marketing are a few ideas.

Yes school does come first, focus on that, get good grades (I know you've heard it all before!) Try other clubs. Focus on getting yourself settled in. If you want to help with one little project with your local team, do it. Just remind yourself not to get carried away. Stick to whatever small project you agreed to take on. If you find yourself taking on more roles, step back, delegate, and distance yourself back into your role of helping with the smaller things.

Any knowledge you can teach and pass on is good, even small contributions help. It's like fundraising, even a $100 helps a team! If you can teach the students even a little, it helps them to grow and benefit from the program, so don't think you have to be the know-all-teach-all mentor.

-Just some food for thought. If you read this all the way to the end, cool. I hope you take some advice and think about what you are doing, why you are doing it, and how it will affect you.

[treffk]

I do not recall if I've posted in this thread before but I'm going to put my experiences out there. I graduated high school and went to a state school about 2.5 hours away from home. I had set up my schedule so I did not have Friday classes during build season. My freshman year of college I still had a lot to learn about time management. I spent almost every weekend of build season back home (which with it being a census year it caused issues as my time was evenly divided between the dorm and my parents). After my freshman year I was asked to reevaluate my priorities and reapply in a year. This was by no means related to mentoring a FIRST team or volunteering with FIRST. This was due to me being on my own for the first time and experiencing new things.

I ended up moving back home and transferred my credits to a program that was set up more for non-traditional students. This meant I had night classes and still no classes on Fridays. For me working part time and volunteering/mentoring with FIRST this was the best place for me to be. It allowed me to effectively balance my schedule and set myself up for success.

For me it wasn't my time commitment to FIRST that caused me issues my freshman year it was my immaturity, my being on my own for the first time, the opportunities for new experiences and trying new things both good and bad. Each person who will be graduating and going off into the "real world" needs to take time and look inward on what they want and what time they could realistically dedicate to a team.