Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.

[who716]

Originally Posted by Botsup

Friends don't let friends drive mecanum. Enough said...

boooya

[Zaque]

Has anyone considered picking a mecanum robot after talking to the team about switching the wheels to traction for eliminations? Or do you think the lack of drive practice would offset any benefits from the traction wheels?

[who716]

Originally Posted by Zaque

Has anyone considered picking a mecanum robot after talking to the team about switching the wheels to traction for eliminations? Or do you think the lack of drive practice would offset any benefits from the traction wheels?

that could end up being a lot of work

[Zaque]

Originally Posted by who716

that could end up being a lot of work

True, WCD has spoiled me in terms of pit repair/wheel replacement.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Zaque

Has anyone considered picking a mecanum robot after talking to the team about switching the wheels to traction for eliminations? Or do you think the lack of drive practice would offset any benefits from the traction wheels?

I'd say that the lack of drive practice would effectively disqualify that option. Along with:

--You now have a 4WD all-traction setup. Generally speaking, those don't turn easily. (With the shorter wheelbases we've seen the last couple of years, though, that's less of an issue.)
--You really need to make a major change to the programming, like eliminating the sideways motion part. Otherwise the robot will act really funny on the field. (Alan Anderson has a story about that somewhere...) But changing the program requires some testing, which you probably won't have time to do...

In short, not a good option. Either you take a mecanum robot as a mecanum robot or you leave them for someone else to take.

[Abhishek R]

It's interesting to see that different regions may have different takes on drivetrain choices. I noticed a lot more mecanum robots in Orlando than I did in Texas (it seemed like 1/3 of all the competition used mecanum).

I figure this might have to do with the mentality of the teams. Again, this is just from my observation, and it's not a blanket statement. But in Orlando, it looked like everyone is more focused on outscoring the opponent rather than denying points from the opponent (which isn't bad, as long as your alliance has more points at the end is all that matters) - in short, offense > defense. For many teams, this was their first regional, yet the finals saw scores around 180 on both sides.

At our first regional, Alamo, the finals never saw a score above 100 points. I attribute that towards a more defensive focused play in Texas, rather than offense. While teams still build and gear towards scoring points, when it comes down to strategy, there's an emphasis on locking down the opponent so they can't score any more points.

Because of this, and the reputation most mecanum driven robots have for getting pushed around, it seems teams in our region stay away from them, and instead focus on tank drives or, even further, butterfly drives to escape pins more easily.

[thatprogrammer]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

It's interesting to see that different regions may have different takes on drivetrain choices. I noticed a lot more mecanum robots in Orlando than I did in Texas (it seemed like 1/3 of all the competition used mecanum).

I figure this might have to do with the mentality of the teams. Again, this is just from my observation, and it's not a blanket statement. But in Orlando, it looked like everyone is more focused on outscoring the opponent rather than denying points from the opponent (which isn't bad, as long as your alliance has more points at the end is all that matters) - in short, offense > defense. For many teams, this was their first regional, yet the finals saw scores around 180 on both sides.

At our first regional, Alamo, the finals never saw a score above 100 points. I attribute that towards a more defensive focused play in Texas, rather than offense. While teams still build and gear towards scoring points, when it comes down to strategy, there's an emphasis on locking down the opponent so they can't score any more points.

Because of this, and the reputation most mecanum driven robots have for getting pushed around, it seems teams in our region stay away from them, and instead focus on tank drives or, even further, butterfly drives to escape pins more easily.

This may have to do with Alamo being earlier, and teams not being sure about offensive strategies at that point in time. By world champs, teams scored over 250 points even during the finals, due to solid offensive strategies being made over the 6 weeks of comp.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

It's interesting to see that different regions may have different takes on drivetrain choices. I noticed a lot more mecanum robots in Orlando than I did in Texas (it seemed like 1/3 of all the competition used mecanum).

I figure this might have to do with the mentality of the teams. Again, this is just from my observation, and it's not a blanket statement. But in Orlando, it looked like everyone is more focused on outscoring the opponent rather than denying points from the opponent (which isn't bad, as long as your alliance has more points at the end is all that matters) - in short, offense > defense. For many teams, this was their first regional, yet the finals saw scores around 180 on both sides.

At our first regional, Alamo, the finals never saw a score above 100 points. I attribute that towards a more defensive focused play in Texas, rather than offense. While teams still build and gear towards scoring points, when it comes down to strategy, there's an emphasis on locking down the opponent so they can't score any more points.

Because of this, and the reputation most mecanum driven robots have for getting pushed around, it seems teams in our region stay away from them, and instead focus on tank drives or, even further, butterfly drives to escape pins more easily.

I attribute that more to about 8 teams at Alamo knowing how to play the game and about 5 or 6 of them actually able to play it.

[Sam_Mills]

Originally Posted by magnets

I don't think mecanum wheels are a great drivetrain. That said, I think a lot of teams who choose mecanum wheels also make other poor choices for their robot, and that is the real reason they aren't on Einstein.

The Einstein level teams pick teams who have high quality and reliable robots, which are generally made by teams who don't use mecanum wheels.

That is not meant to be a blanket statement, but my general view and opinion.

I would assert that it is safe to say this is not a view or an opinion, but an objectively observable trend. Of course the only way to prove this; You need a database directly comparing average win/loss ratio of different classes of robots by drivetrain.

This is not likely to happen any time soon, but that doesn't mean we can't recognize that it is true that robots of similar ability level have similar qualities. Mecanum robots historically are not as good as non-mecanum robots. We don't have to like it, but that is how it is.

I think I may coin a term "mecanum-apologist"...

[Max Boord]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

It's interesting to see that different regions may have different takes on drivetrain choices. I noticed a lot more mecanum robots in Orlando than I did in Texas (it seemed like 1/3 of all the competition used mecanum).

49 tank, 10 mecanum, 2 jump drives and 1 swerve.

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

I figure this might have to do with the mentality of the teams. Again, this is just from my observation, and it's not a blanket statement. But in Orlando, it looked like everyone is more focused on outscoring the opponent rather than denying points from the opponent (which isn't bad, as long as your alliance has more points at the end is all that matters) - in short, offense > defense. For many teams, this was their first regional, yet the finals saw scores around 180 on both sides.

This is why you see mecanum drive in Florida. Defense is not played nearly as much as in other places and most alliances go for the outscoring strategy. Just look at QF 2-2 at South Florida in 2013. The match had 3 mecanum drive robots, no defense and a 149-103 score.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by thatprogrammer

This may have to do with Alamo being earlier, and teams not being sure about offensive strategies at that point in time. By world champs, teams scored over 250 points even during the finals, due to solid offensive strategies being made over the 6 weeks of comp.

Right, but I know it was the first regional for most of the teams there. Our alliance ran the same strategy that we ran at Alamo (2 assist cycles, the 3rd robot being focused on defense) yet the scores were significantly different.

Again, just an observation.

[who716]

I believe that it is very well known New England is where some of the heaviest defensive play occurs. watching events all over the US I noticed that in the west its offense offense offense. even in Texas the robots were made to play a purely offensive games, example 148 118, yes they play defense but there robot designs were more offensive. therefore I believe its true that mecanum wheels would be more common in those areas then up in new England.

[Anthony Galea]

Sorry to go a little off-topic here, but these are questions I had relating to this thread.

1) An add-on to the question for those who said automatic DNP: Instead of pick list, if you are a top 8 seed and a team with mecanum wheels above you picks you, do you automatically decline, or is it dependent on performance?

2) Are the same penalties made towards teams with:
a)4WD Omni
b)Slide/H Drive
c)Kiwi Drive

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by 3175student17

Sorry to go a little off-topic here, but these are questions I had relating to this thread.

1) An add-on to the question for those who said automatic DNP: Instead of pick list, if you are a top 8 seed and a team with mecanum wheels above you picks you, do you automatically decline, or is it dependent on performance?

2) Are the same penalties made towards teams with:
a)4WD Omni
b)Slide/H Drive
c)Kiwi Drive

It depends on performance. I don't think to many teams were declining 33 this year even though they were a 4WD omni robot. However, I assume that their drivetrain choice was a consideration when teams were putting together pick lists.

[Max Boord]

Originally Posted by 3175student17

Sorry to go a little off-topic here, but these are questions I had relating to this thread.

1) An add-on to the question for those who said automatic DNP: Instead of pick list, if you are a top 8 seed and a team with mecanum wheels above you picks you, do you automatically decline, or is it dependent on performance?

2) Are the same penalties made towards teams with:
a)4WD Omni
b)Slide/H Drive
c)Kiwi Drive

1. It would depend on the team.

2.
A: Until a larger amount of teams use them I shovel them into the same pile as mecanum. that being said, i would pick 33 at just about every opportunity.

B: mecanum pile.

C: DNP. it can not push and has a smaller wheel base.