[FRCGameSense]Chezy Champs Live

[Abrakadabra]

Can someone please explain the wonky scoring going on here? Primarily, how is 148 considered the current top rank when they have one less win than 1678? Every tournament I've ever been to ranks teams based on their actual matches played, not some prediction of what they might do in future matches, as seems to be the case here.

I listened in to the pre-game show hoping they might explain, but ... didn't happen.

What happened in the scheduling algorithm that skewed so many of 148's matches into today? One could argue an unfair advantage there?

It's also interesting how all of the TBA data was taken down last night. Did the highly-touted "live update" not work so well? When I was watching yesterday, it was interesting how 148 was not given a loss for their third match (although their two partners were), and that allowed them to stay high in the rankings all day.

(EDIT: TBA just came back up, but in the rankings screen, it says that 148 has only played 7 matches (and stand 6-1). However, if you look at 148's team page, it clearly shows that they have played 8 matches, and should be 6-2. Something is still wrong with the data - is this the only issue, or are there more?)

It may sound like I have something against 148, but that's not true at all. They just happened to be the team that I noticed the wonky scoring on yesterday, and now they are up in first place with no logical explanation. I am, in fact, cheering them on as one of the 3 non-CA teams in attendance, so I wish them lots of luck!

Otherwise, great effort by all involved - the live stream is spectacular, even way out here in New Hampshire! And I love the graphics upgrades - hoping for some "inspiration" to flow to FIRST in that regard!

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by Abrakadabra

Can someone please explain the wonky scoring going on here? Primarily, how is 148 considered the current top rank when they have one less win than 1678? Every tournament I've ever been to ranks teams based on their actual matches played, not some prediction of what they might do in future matches, as seems to be the case here.

I listened in to the pre-game show hoping they might explain, but ... didn't happen.

What happened in the scheduling algorithm that skewed so many of 148's matches into today? One could argue an unfair advantage there?

It's also interesting how all of the TBA data was taken down last night. Did the highly-touted "live update" not work so well? When I was watching yesterday, it was interesting how 148 was not given a loss for their third match (although their two partners were), and that allowed them to stay high in the rankings all day.

(EDIT: TBA just came back up, but in the rankings screen, it says that 148 has only played 7 matches (and stand 6-1). However, if you look at 148's team page, it clearly shows that they have played 8 matches, and should be 6-2. Something is still wrong with the data - is this the only issue, or are there more?)

It may sound like I have something against 148, but that's not true at all. They just happened to be the team that I noticed the wonky scoring on yesterday, and now they are up in first place with no logical explanation. I am, in fact, cheering them on as one of the 3 non-CA teams in attendance, so I wish them lots of luck!

Otherwise, great effort by all involved - the live stream is spectacular, even way out here in New Hampshire! And I love the graphics upgrades - hoping for some "inspiration" to flow to FIRST in that regard!

They had a surrogate match in match 13

[Eugene Fang]

Originally Posted by Abrakadabra

Can someone please explain the wonky scoring going on here? Primarily, how is 148 considered the current top rank when they have one less win than 1678? Every tournament I've ever been to ranks teams based on their actual matches played, not some prediction of what they might do in future matches, as seems to be the case here.

I listened in to the pre-game show hoping they might explain, but ... didn't happen.

What happened in the scheduling algorithm that skewed so many of 148's matches into today? One could argue an unfair advantage there?

It's also interesting how all of the TBA data was taken down last night. Did the highly-touted "live update" not work so well? When I was watching yesterday, it was interesting how 148 was not given a loss for their third match (although their two partners were), and that allowed them to stay high in the rankings all day.

(EDIT: TBA just came back up, but in the rankings screen, it says that 148 has only played 7 matches (and stand 6-1). However, if you look at 148's team page, it clearly shows that they have played 8 matches, and should be 6-2. Something is still wrong with the data - is this the only issue, or are there more?)

It may sound like I have something against 148, but that's not true at all. They just happened to be the team that I noticed the wonky scoring on yesterday, and now they are up in first place with no logical explanation. I am, in fact, cheering them on as one of the 3 non-CA teams in attendance, so I wish them lots of luck!

Otherwise, great effort by all involved - the live stream is spectacular, even way out here in New Hampshire! And I love the graphics upgrades - hoping for some "inspiration" to flow to FIRST in that regard!

Two words: surrogate match. The match 148 loss was a surrogate match for them.

About TBA's data going down last night, it seems like Cheesy Arena published blank scores to TBA around midnight. I'm currently investigation to see what exactly happened.

[Abrakadabra]

Originally Posted by Eugene Fang

Two words: surrogate match. The match 148 loss was a surrogate match for them.

Thank you - didn't catch that yesterday (and I watched the entire match).

However, that still doesn't explain how only 6 wins (and a QS of 12) puts them in front of 4 other teams with higher QS?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Abrakadabra

Thank you - didn't catch that yesterday (and I watched the entire match).

However, that still doesn't explain how only 6 wins (and a QS of 12) puts them in front of 4 other teams with higher QS?

The rankings are normalized so that (as an example) you don't have a 5-0 team displayed behind a 6-1 team, just because they've played more matches.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by Abrakadabra

Thank you - didn't catch that yesterday (and I watched the entire match).

However, that still doesn't explain how only 6 wins (and a QS of 12) puts them in front of 4 other teams with higher QS?

Chezy Arena ranks differently to allow accurate ratings between teams with different numbers of matches played. Likely, they divide all the ranking data by the number of matches played, so that the robowranglers can be compared to a team that has played more matches equally.

When all teams have played all their matches, the rankings will work like normal.

[Abrakadabra]

Originally Posted by Jared

Chezy Arena ranks differently to allow accurate ratings between teams with different numbers of matches played. Likely, they divide all the ranking data by the number of matches played, so that the robowranglers can be compared to a team that has played more matches equally.

When all teams have played all their matches, the rankings will work like normal.

#wow
#muchinnovashun



Seriously, I think I like it - it removes the mental math that we are all accustomed to playing when looking at the rankings - but it would take some getting used to if implemented more widely (i.e. at official FIRST events). Having all those other columns there, "putting the lie" (in a way) to the rankings further confuses the situation. Perhaps they could be tweaked to more accurately show how the rankings are derived?

Anyone done a white paper on Chezy Arena yet?

[Lance5136]

The rankings and commentary was incredible. I (and many others watching at home) felt like this was a professional sports event! Do you guys have the recording of alliance selections?

[g_sawchuk]

Originally Posted by Lance5136

The rankings and commentary was incredible. I (and many others watching at home) felt like this was a professional sports event! Do you guys have the recording of alliance selections?

Here you go! (If you mean written records, not voice)
http://imgur.com/l1fDckJ

[Navid Shafa]

Originally Posted by GrifBot

Here you go! (If you mean written records, not voice)
http://imgur.com/l1fDckJ

Note: 148 and 696 declined 4543

[Nuttyman54]

GameSense had an incredible time at Chezy Champs this weekend, and we hope everyone watching online and at the event did too. We had our share of problems with internet connectivity, blown circuits, over-eager teardown and a few messed up overlays, but we feel that overall the production went well and we are proud of the result. We're very interested in getting feedback from everyone who watched or attended live, so please take a quick survey and let us know what you thought and how we can improve in the future.

We'd also be remiss if we didn't thank everyone who helped make this possible:

Chezy Champs, we were incredibly honored to be invited to do the live event. We all look up to 254 as a standard of quality and we knew the kind of expecations Chezy Champs would be held to. We can't thank you enough for taking the risk and letting us develop our vision of live broadcast FIRST events

Washington FIRST Robotics provided most of the A/V equipment and additional support for GameSense and the live production, and we could not have done this without their support

Symbotic, the official sponsor of GameSense, thank you for the support and help with improving our brand and expanding our reach. Symbotic is a robotics company near Boston developing warehouse automation solutions, and we are excited to have them on board!

Tableau for providing licenses and support for our stats center

Karthik Kanagasabapathy and Paul Copioli for advice on the finer points of live announcing and generally being awesome to work with

Nikki and Spencer from 1318 IRS for helping us prepare the equipment at FIRSTWA and loaning us the steadicam for the highlight reels

Brendan Browne and Rahul Yarlagadda for being honorary GameSense members for the weekend and taking all the sweet picture of robots that we used. We were short-handed trying to get everything ready in time, and you guys really helped us out

Eugene Fang and Akash Rastogi for moderating the stream chat

And of course, thanks to all of the viewers for the shoutouts, tweets and enthusiasm throughout the event!

The Sunday Pre-Show, Opening Ceremonies, Eliminations and Highlight Reel VODs have been posted to the GameSense YouTube, and the remainder of the event will be posted in a few weeks once we get the computer back from California. The robot photos have also been uploaded here.

GameSense has several other really exciting projects in the works that we'll be announcing soon, so follow us on Facebook/Twitter/Twitch and check out www.frcgamesense.com for the latest news on what we're doing!

[Metonym]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

Nikki and Spencer from 1318 IRS for helping us prepare the equipment at FIRSTWA and loaning us the steadicam for the highlight reels

Anytime man, I love what you guys are doing and I can't wait to see it grow.

I'm a bit mad at myself for not getting the chance to balance and teach you guys the steadicam. It would have made the highlight reels way better, though I was impressed by your footage. It is hard to get the smoothness, but on some shots you had it nailed down!