Go to Post But altering register values via bitwise operations in nested ternary commands is so much fun! - artdutra04 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Other > FIRST Tech Challenge
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 20 votes, 4.80 average. Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-09-2014, 12:29
z_beeblebrox's Avatar
z_beeblebrox z_beeblebrox is offline
Custom User Title
AKA: Cal
FRC #4183 (Bit Buckets)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Cambridge MA
Posts: 811
z_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond repute
[FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

New game!

Information here:
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/game
__________________
2012 Utah Regional Rookie All-Star
2013 Phoenix Regional Judge's Award for "design process and prototyping"
2014 Hub City Regional Quality Award, Arizona Regional Excellence in Engineering Award
2015 Arizona East Regional Creativity Award, Winner
2016 Arizona North Regional Finalist, Arizona West Excellence in Engineering Award, Finalist
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-09-2014, 13:46
FTC7584's Avatar
FTC7584 FTC7584 is offline
addicted to FIRST
AKA: Andrew S
FTC #7584 (Bad News Bots)
Team Role: Scout
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Wilmington DE
Posts: 22
FTC7584 will become famous soon enough
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Looks really interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-09-2014, 13:52
g_sawchuk's Avatar
g_sawchuk g_sawchuk is offline
Hmm.
AKA: Griffin Sawchuk
FRC #4476
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 340
g_sawchuk is just really niceg_sawchuk is just really niceg_sawchuk is just really niceg_sawchuk is just really niceg_sawchuk is just really nice
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Looks like a great new FTC challenge with lots of possibilities for scoring. The end game is also quite nice, as it puts some last minute risk into the game.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-09-2014, 15:10
FTC7584's Avatar
FTC7584 FTC7584 is offline
addicted to FIRST
AKA: Andrew S
FTC #7584 (Bad News Bots)
Team Role: Scout
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Wilmington DE
Posts: 22
FTC7584 will become famous soon enough
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Did a bit of math, tried to come up with max score you could get (no penalties)

AUTONOMOUS- 170 POINTS
20pts - Driving from ramp to floor
30pts - Releasing kickstand
60pts - Alliance has a ball in the center goal
60pts - All three rolling goals in parking zone

TELEOP (REGULAR) - 402 POINTS
27pts - 30cm goal filled
114pts - 60cm goal filled
261pts - 90cm goal filled

TELEOP (ENDGAME) - 300 POINTS
90pts - All three rolling goals on top of ramp (off playing field)
60pts - Both alliance robots on top of ramp (off playing field)
150pts - Center goal filled*

GRAND TOTAL - 872 POINTS

*this is an approximation, I couldn't find out exactly what the max scoring limit for the central goal was in either the manual, or the video

looks like we'll be having a lot of high scores this year
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-09-2014, 19:04
AKSoapy29's Avatar
AKSoapy29 AKSoapy29 is offline
Driver, Prog, Elec, Pneu, Etc.
AKA: Andrew K.
FRC #2169 (KING TeC)
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 22
AKSoapy29 has a spectacular aura aboutAKSoapy29 has a spectacular aura aboutAKSoapy29 has a spectacular aura about
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC7584 View Post
150pts - Center goal filled*

*this is an approximation, I couldn't find out exactly what the max scoring limit for the central goal was in either the manual, or the video

looks like we'll be having a lot of high scores this year
I was wondering about this. It says it is scored from the FLOOR. The bottom of the center goal is 90 cm from the floor. 90 * 6 = 540. Does this make sense? Someone should get official clarification from the FTC Forum. This could be a game changer.

The scoring for the center goal is on page 7 of the Part 2 Game Manual.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-09-2014, 19:37
skatefriday skatefriday is offline
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 38
skatefriday is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSoapy29 View Post
I was wondering about this. It says it is scored from the FLOOR. The bottom of the center goal is 90 cm from the floor. 90 * 6 = 540. Does this make sense? Someone should get official clarification from the FTC Forum. This could be a game changer.

The scoring for the center goal is on page 7 of the Part 2 Game Manual.
Our team was having the same discussion. I suspect this will be the first clarification on the official FTC Q&A thread.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-09-2014, 19:43
orangemoore orangemoore is offline
Registered User
AKA: Roger Moore
FRC #3135 (Robotic Colonels)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,310
orangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by skatefriday View Post
Our team was having the same discussion. I suspect this will be the first clarification on the official FTC Q&A thread.
My guess its going to be max of 180 points for the 30 cm cylinder.
__________________
Stronghold


Student 2013-2016
3135 -- Robotic Colonels
3507 -- Robotheosis (FTC)
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-09-2014, 20:59
maths222 maths222 is offline
FTC FTA
AKA: Jacob Burroughs
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 148
maths222 is a splendid one to beholdmaths222 is a splendid one to beholdmaths222 is a splendid one to beholdmaths222 is a splendid one to beholdmaths222 is a splendid one to beholdmaths222 is a splendid one to beholdmaths222 is a splendid one to behold
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangemoore View Post
My guess its going to be max of 180 points for the 30 cm cylinder.
Quote:
Ball Height – The measurement from the bottom of the Ball Tube to the top of the uppermost Ball in the Ball Tube, i.e. the height of the stack of Balls in the Ball Tube. This is used when calculating the Score for a Goal.
Quote:
6 points for each cm of Ball Height for Balls Scored In the Center Goal.
These excerpts from the game manual would seem to resolve the confusion.
__________________
--Jacob
Illinois FTC FTA
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-09-2014, 16:41
Scott_4140 Scott_4140 is offline
Registered User
FTC #4140 (Fish in the Boat)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: May 2011
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Lakeville, MN
Posts: 86
Scott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really nice
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC7584 View Post
Did a bit of math, tried to come up with max score you could get (no penalties)

AUTONOMOUS- 170 POINTS
20pts - Driving from ramp to floor
30pts - Releasing kickstand
60pts - Alliance has a ball in the center goal
60pts - All three rolling goals in parking zone

TELEOP (REGULAR) - 402 POINTS
27pts - 30cm goal filled
114pts - 60cm goal filled
261pts - 90cm goal filled

TELEOP (ENDGAME) - 300 POINTS
90pts - All three rolling goals on top of ramp (off playing field)
60pts - Both alliance robots on top of ramp (off playing field)
150pts - Center goal filled*

GRAND TOTAL - 872 POINTS

*this is an approximation, I couldn't find out exactly what the max scoring limit for the central goal was in either the manual, or the video

looks like we'll be having a lot of high scores this year
I think you missed the Autonomous Ball in each of the rolling goals for 30 points each adding 90 points.

Rolling goal maximums are confirmed in the game manual on page 10.

Build guide shows 275mm tape measures for the center goal so I assume the max number of cm is 27 like the 30cm rolling goal. This means a max of 162 points for balls in the center goal.

AUTONOMOUS- 260 POINTS
20pts - Driving from ramp to floor
30pts - Releasing kickstand
60pts - Alliance has a ball in the center goal
90pts - Alliance has a ball in each rolling goal
60pts - All three rolling goals in parking zone

TELEOP (REGULAR) - 402 POINTS
27pts - 30cm goal filled
114pts - 60cm goal filled
261pts - 90cm goal filled

TELEOP (ENDGAME) - 312 POINTS
90pts - All three rolling goals on top of ramp (off playing field)
60pts - Both alliance robots on top of ramp (off playing field)
162pts - Center goal filled*

GRAND TOTAL - 974 POINTS
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-09-2014, 10:46
TheThings5926 TheThings5926 is offline
Registered User
FTC #5926
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 15
TheThings5926 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

I am thinking a unfoldable conveyor and a scoop to load the balls into the tall tube
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-09-2014, 17:08
Scott_4140 Scott_4140 is offline
Registered User
FTC #4140 (Fish in the Boat)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: May 2011
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Lakeville, MN
Posts: 86
Scott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really nice
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Perhaps a hasty decision since the ruler only goes to 27.5cm, but the Game Rules and Game Play - Answer Thread #22 ups the Endgame Scoring of the Center Goal to 30cm and 180 points. That 4th ball just netted you 18 more points.

AUTONOMOUS- 260 POINTS
20pts - Driving from ramp to floor
30pts - Releasing kickstand
60pts - Alliance has a ball in the center goal
90pts - Alliance has a ball in each rolling goal
60pts - All three rolling goals in parking zone

TELEOP (REGULAR) - 402 POINTS
27pts - 30cm goal filled
114pts - 60cm goal filled
261pts - 90cm goal filled

TELEOP (ENDGAME) - 330 POINTS
90pts - All three rolling goals on top of ramp (off playing field)
60pts - Both alliance robots on top of ramp (off playing field)
180pts - Center goal filled*

GRAND TOTAL - 992 POINTS
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-09-2014, 17:15
orangemoore orangemoore is offline
Registered User
AKA: Roger Moore
FRC #3135 (Robotic Colonels)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,310
orangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_4140 View Post
AUTONOMOUS- 260 POINTS
TELEOP (REGULAR) - 402 POINTS
TELEOP (ENDGAME) - 330 POINTS
GRAND TOTAL - 992 POINTS
I wouldn't be surpirsed to see scores with no penalties hit the 800+ mark.
I think we might actually see scores as high as 900 but they will be rare.
__________________
Stronghold


Student 2013-2016
3135 -- Robotic Colonels
3507 -- Robotheosis (FTC)
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-09-2014, 17:41
Scott_4140 Scott_4140 is offline
Registered User
FTC #4140 (Fish in the Boat)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: May 2011
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Lakeville, MN
Posts: 86
Scott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really nice
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangemoore View Post
I wouldn't be surpirsed to see scores with no penalties hit the 800+ mark.
I think we might actually see scores as high as 900 but they will be rare.
Let's break it down...

AUTONOMOUS - 210 out of 260 POINTS, the last 50 points are very, very hard.
20pts - Driving from ramp to floor - Easy for most teams
30pts - Releasing kickstand - Easy for most teams
60pts - Alliance has a ball in the center goal - Half the teams
90pts - Alliance has a ball in each rolling goal - 1 goal, Easy, 2 goals Hard, 3 goals Very Hard
60pts - All three rolling goals in parking zone - 1 Hard, 2 goals Very Hard, 3 goals Extremely Hard

TELEOP (REGULAR) - 402 out of 402 POINTS
27pts - 30cm goal filled - Doable by a top alliance
114pts - 60cm goal filled - Doable by a top alliance
261pts - 90cm goal filled - Doable by a top alliance

TELEOP (ENDGAME) - 330 out of 330 POINTS
90pts - All three rolling goals on top of ramp (off playing field) - 1 Easy, 2 Moderate, 3 Hard
60pts - Both alliance robots on top of ramp (off playing field) - 1 Easy, 2 Easy
180pts - Center goal filled - Hard, but doable.

GRAND TOTAL - 942 out of 992 POINTS

Season High Score prediction 942 Points (before penalties)
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-09-2014, 12:00
RRLedford RRLedford is offline
FTC 3507 Robo Theosis -- FRC 3135
AKA: Dick Ledford
FRC #3135 (Robotic Colonels)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 286
RRLedford has a reputation beyond reputeRRLedford has a reputation beyond reputeRRLedford has a reputation beyond reputeRRLedford has a reputation beyond reputeRRLedford has a reputation beyond reputeRRLedford has a reputation beyond reputeRRLedford has a reputation beyond reputeRRLedford has a reputation beyond reputeRRLedford has a reputation beyond reputeRRLedford has a reputation beyond reputeRRLedford has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

I doubt whether even 10% of teams will score in the center goal in autonomous, because of its one-of-three, start of match, randomly chosen rotational positions.

How many teams do you really think will be able to autonomously distinguish the start of match center goal positioning correctly with I/R signal detection, and accomplish one of three (or six, depending on start point - ramp or floor) driving paths to reach an accurate enough relative position to the center goal, from which they can consistently score one ball in it?

No way half the teams will do this, not until maybe even the level of competition at World. So, I knock off 30 autonomous points for your max. scoring projection for early in the season finals match competitions, 15 points for later in the season finals, and 6 points for World's finals.

So IMO, an alliance scoring above 200 in autonomous will be extremely rare in early qualifying competitions, very rare in state competitions, rare in super-regionals, and infrequent in world competions

-Dick Ledford
__________________
FTC 3507 RoboTheosis
FRC 3135 Robotic Colonels
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-09-2014, 13:23
Scott_4140 Scott_4140 is offline
Registered User
FTC #4140 (Fish in the Boat)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: May 2011
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Lakeville, MN
Posts: 86
Scott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really niceScott_4140 is just really nice
Re: [FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRLedford View Post
I doubt whether even 10% of teams will score in the center goal in autonomous, because of its one-of-three, start of match, randomly chosen rotational positions.

How many teams do you really think will be able to autonomously distinguish the start of match center goal positioning correctly with I/R signal detection, and accomplish one of three (or six, depending on start point - ramp or floor) driving paths to reach an accurate enough relative position to the center goal, from which they can consistently score one ball in it?

No way half the teams will do this, not until maybe even the level of competition at World. So, I knock off 30 autonomous points for your max. scoring projection for early in the season finals match competitions, 15 points for later in the season finals, and 6 points for World's finals.

So IMO, an alliance scoring above 200 in autonomous will be extremely rare in early qualifying competitions, very rare in state competitions, rare in super-regionals, and infrequent in world competions

-Dick Ledford
My 50% assessment for the center goal was capable not successful. I'm guessing there will be a significant percentage of robots that are not designed to lift (or shoot) a ball 120cm off the floor. I agree that in early tournaments we may only see a 10% success rate. Every robot that's capable of lifting a ball 120+ cm should be "capable" of dropping it in the center goal. The success rate should go up quickly!

Consider a brute force strategy. Line up your robot on the mat in the center of your protected starting zone, against the perimeter wall, assuming that you will get starting configuration #3. At the start of Autonomous, drive straight forward until you engage the center structure. (Simple guides, not grasping) Raise your ball 120+ cm and drop it in. In theory, this is a 33% strategy. Even planning for mishaps, it should net 25% success.

Touch, EOPD, or Ultra Sonic sensors could easily be used to determine if you are correctly positioned. This should increase the success rate.

Now more clever teams will use that IR Beacon to help determine if they were right in their guess. If they sense that its not in position #3, they can make a decision to hold on to their ball or make a move to position #2. Then position #1.

In truth, you can do this without ever using the IR Sensor. You can do all this with just the position sensing.

This strategy should be accessible to any average or better team. Considering this is worth over 100 points, its well worth the effort. (60 points in Autonomous "plus", another 42 points in Endgame, assuming you use the large ball)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:00.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi