[FRC Blog] - NASA Grants and Something New for 2015

[Electronica1]

Could it just be a change in the bumper design standard (like 3 pool noodles so bumpers are taller, or something along those lines). A change like that could make sense due to the harder hitting drive trains, and the fact that the old bumper standards were set when you only had 4 cim drives.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Hmm. Now that we have mini-CIMs they may just ban CIMs. Both motors have the same footprint so we can keep our current investments in COTS gearboxes, yet the rule may address some of the power concerns (i.e. over-current draw) that have been brought up on these forums.

Something like that would result in a much earlier notification than when build starts. You would have to deal with a choked supply line for a critical part and therefore a lot of really ticked off powerhouses and an innumerable number of teams simply out of luck for the season.

[AdamHeard]

Unless FIRST has real dummies steering the boat (which they don't), they won't do something like ban CIMs.

It sounds like Frank is describing some sort of visionary change. Something truly DIFFERENT.

If you ban CIMs, and bring grandma to the event she won't notice a difference at all. Most students and mentors on most teams wouldn't notice a difference either.

Banning CIMs is the equivalent to the rude teenager who leaves his trash in the theatre because it "creates someone's job". It causes teams and COTs suppliers to scramble and jump through some hoops, but to no real net gain. Motors are just Torque-Speed combos (aka Mechanical power supplies) with varying levels of durability (head dissipation).

In industry changes such as a motor change (at least in the style described above) is generally trivial. I really, really want to believe the change we are warned about it something higher level and actually meaningful.

For reference to my mindset, the wheel change in 09 doesn't fall into the above category. It's closer to it than say the introduction of alliances in 1999, but it wasn't a purely arbitrary change to create more work for teams.

[mklinker]

How about something simpler such as no ability to opt out of the KOP drive base (if any). When registering for the kick-off event, past practice has allowed for opting out of the KOP drive base. That option does not currently exist for 2015.

Just a thought.....

Maybe the game requires NO drive base????????

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by mklinker

How about something simpler such as no ability to opt out of the KOP drive base (if any). When registering for the kick-off event, past practice has allowed for opting out of the KOP drive base. That option does not currently exist for 2015.

Just a thought.....

Maybe the game requires NO drive base????????

Kit base opt-out only started 2 (maybe 3?) years ago - making a bunch of teams that won't end up using the kit frame take a kit frame is a waste. I'm sure we probably have at least 1 kit frame somewhere in our sheds still.

[MechEng83]

Originally Posted by mklinker

How about something simpler such as no ability to opt out of the KOP drive base (if any). When registering for the kick-off event, past practice has allowed for opting out of the KOP drive base. That option does not currently exist for 2015.

Just a thought.....

Maybe the game requires NO drive base????????

LOL. Check the new blog post: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...m-Opt-Out-2015

[Joe Ross]

There hasn't been an announcement to buy pool noodles yet. Considering that they are already out of stores in most of the country, draw whatever conclusion that you like.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

There hasn't been an announcement to buy pool noodles yet. Considering that they are already out of stores in most of the country, draw whatever conclusion that you like.

I conclude this year's KOP comes with a force field generator

[FrankJ]

So the blog says there will be wheels... I really cannot imagine no bumpers unless they do something to seriously limit robot interactions. So I would buy noodles on spec.

First has substantial dollars tied up in fields. Don't expect anything that will change the basic field. The carpet gets replaced for almost every regional so a different surface is a distinct possibility.

[the programmer]

My thought:



(I really hope Frank doesn't see this...)

[mrnoble]

So now we know a bit more:

Wheels (check!)
Tough Box Mini, therefore CIMs (check!)
Multiple possible configurations (check!)
Opt-out, therefore similar parts costs (check!)

We can't yet eliminate field elements like hills, steps or obstructions, but it would be pretty tough to make that kit bot climb, even with monster truck wheels. I reserve judgement on that.

I don't know that I have enough imagination to come up with a viable way to increase spectator-friendliness, keep low-level teams viable, and challenge high-level teams, while fundamentally changing the game. I'm sure the GDC is smarter than I am, though, so I look forward to seeing how they move this sport forward.

FWIW, last year's game was essentially hockey, heavily adapted to the point where it could be called "robot ball". I wish they could just rejigger last years game with the lessons that were learned and not come up with a totally new challenge; it had the most potential of any game I've been in to become a real sport, even though it had some near-fatal flaws.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Tough Box Mini, therefore CIMs (check!)

How does the toughtbox mini rule out replacing CIMs with MiniCIMs?

Originally Posted by mrnoble

FWIW, last year's game was essentially hockey, heavily adapted to the point where it could be called "robot ball". I wish they could just rejigger last years game with the lessons that were learned and not come up with a totally new challenge; it had the most potential of any game I've been in to become a real sport, even though it had some near-fatal flaws.

I think we watch very very different versions of hockey.

[MARS_James]

Originally Posted by the programmer

My thought:

Attachment 17357

(I really hope Frank doesn't see this...)

No
No
No
No
No
No

Those are the two worst games I have ever participated in (also my last two as a student), if not for a favor I owed they would have caused me to quit FRC. I can not begin to describe my hatred of those games without using words not allowed on this forum

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I think we watch very very different versions of hockey.

How awesome would it have been to see to robots stop, take off there bumpers, and wail on each other with pickup mechanisms.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by MARS_James

How awesome would it have been to see to robots stop, take off there bumpers, and wail on each other with pickup mechanisms.

I feel like you were watching a very different version of Aerial Assault than I was playing... Or just, welcome to New England.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Something like that would result in a much earlier notification than when build starts. You would have to deal with a choked supply line for a critical part and therefore a lot of really ticked off powerhouses and an innumerable number of teams simply out of luck for the season.

There's no reason at all this requirement would have to be made public though. AndyMark and Vex could be contacted directly and supply could be ensured. Keep in mind that Vex coordinated the production of the Mini-CIM and BAG in secret as well, only announcing the parts publicly at Kickoff when we read about the motors in the rules.

Honestly I'm thinking the change is some field obstacle you have to drive over. Haven't had a *required* obstacle since 2010, other than the fairly shallow 2012 ramps. The bump existed in 2012 but that was fairly optional.