Are we required to use the new control system?

[tdbroun]

Our team is wondering if it is a requirement to user the new 2015 control system in competition this year. Or can we use the old cRIO's that we have and wait until next year (thus avoiding having to spend the money for spares of everything) Is this answer published anywhere?

Thanks for your help.

Tim

[MrForbes]

The rules will be published when the season starts in January. But I really doubt you will be able to use the old system.

[Arhowk]

Don't plan on using an old cRIO, considering every team has atleast one in their KOP I don't see them updating cRIO software, not to mention the new fms system with whatever they're using

Old crops can be put on practice bots though, they're far from unusable. If your concern is programming than write a custom language to binary compiler and create binary readers on both devices that read the same code. That was our initial system back in comp season but we've moved on to bigger recently.

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by Arhowk

Don't plan on using an old cRIO, considering every team has atleast one in their KOP I don't see them updating cRIO software, not to mention the new fms system with whatever they're using

I don't expect the FMS to be changing much, at least from a communication protocol standpoint. Teams have used their beta hardware at competitions have have run with the existing FMS.

I doubt there will be any compatibility issues between the 2015+ FMS and the cRIOS, but I still don't foresee the cRIO being competition legal* (especially since all teams will be getting new hardware in their kits)

/speculation

* Of course, we'll have to wait for the actual rules to be released

[cgmv123]

I don't see a scenario where the old control system would be legal either. FIRST is giving you the new control system for free at no extra charge; it's reasonable of them to expect you to use it.

[AWoL]

Originally Posted by Arhowk

If your concern is programming than write a custom language to binary compiler and create binary readers on both devices that read the same code. That was our initial system back in comp season but we've moved on to bigger recently.

Every beta team that I've talked to has said the code is nearly identical, you just take the port numbers down one (now that everything is zero based), and there are just a couple new classes like AnalogInput instead of AnalogValue, etc.

Writing a custom Java compiler just to get away from that sounds like a ludicrous waste of time...

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

I don't expect the FMS to be changing much, at least from a communication protocol standpoint. Teams have used their beta hardware at competitions have have run with the existing FMS.

I doubt there will be any compatibility issues between the 2015+ FMS and the cRIOS, but I still don't foresee the cRIO being competition legal* (especially since all teams will be getting new hardware in their kits)

/speculation

* Of course, we'll have to wait for the actual rules to be released

2014 and 2015 will have different and incompatible communications protocols. We had a RoboRio team at an offseason event that they forgot to switch to 2014(the beta software defaults to 2015) before a match and it took us a while to figure out the cause. Every time they linked it immediately crashed FMS.

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

2014 and 2015 will have different and incomparable communications protocols. We had a RoboRio team at an offseason event that they forgot to switch to 2014(the beta software defaults to 2015) before a match and it took us a while to figure out the cause. Every time they linked it immediately crashed FMS.

I stand corrected. Thanks for clarifying (I wasn't at the event, I had just heard that some beta teams were competing with the new hardware).

[Greg McKaskle]

At the moment, the driver station and robot comms library supports both old and new protocol to the robot. The current protocol to the field was supposed to be identical, but in reality, one field was packed the same as the new protocol, confusing the FMS.

Some/most teams are actually using the new protocol on the field. Other changes are underway.

Greg McKaskle

[Hoffer5236]

Why are they offering the old cRio and other parts of the 2014 control system on First Choice?

[Mark McLeod]

To dispose of old remaining stock that some of us will want.
Teams can employ them to keep older demo bots operational, or use them to add a practice bot without extra cost.

[Jim Wilks]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

We had a RoboRio team at an offseason event that they forgot to switch to 2014(the beta software defaults to 2015) before a match and it took us a while to figure out the cause. Every time they linked it immediately crashed FMS.

Crashed the FMS? I thought FMS was much more robust than that. Crashing the entire FMS over a version difference on one of 6 teams on the field seems extreme.

[tim-tim]

Originally Posted by Jim Wilks

Crashed the FMS? I thought FMS was much more robust than that. Crashing the entire FMS over a version difference on one of 6 teams on the field seems extreme.

That was us. While I don't know the difference between what the 2014 and 2015 FMS is, I can share some light on the situation. We were on the field prepping for a match when the driver station blue screened. When this happened and the dashboard was reopened/relaunched the default was to connect to the 2015 FMS. This is a product of the version of the driver station for the Beta teams. Once the 2014 FMS button was selected it worked as designed. It was an oversight in our part at the time after restarting the driver station.

I don't foresee this being an issue during the competition season, as the 2015 season driver station software will likely only have a 2015 "option". I could be wrong, but that is what I suspect.

[adciv]

And it was my laptop which crashed Regardless, the bug has been fixed and tested at other off season events.

[virtuald]

Originally Posted by Jim Wilks

Crashed the FMS? I thought FMS was much more robust than that. Crashing the entire FMS over a version difference on one of 6 teams on the field seems extreme.

Given the various problems that the FMS has had over the years, and given that the FMS code is closed and not available for public review/improvements, I would be very surprised if it were robust.