Bumper Material

[marshall]

I think it is time to revive this discussion. Has anyone come up with a better bumper fabric material that they would care to share?

We're experimenting with sailcloth now. We're also looking into embroidering the numbers rather than painting them.

I'm curious to see what revisions FIRST makes to the rules this year for bumpers. They need to be easier for rookie teams to implement and for veteran teams to assist with. We advocated to Andy to make some corner brackets to make them easier to build. He had a prototype at CMP that was pretty cool but no word yet on whether they will be building it or teams will be able to buy it. I'm hoping for it personally.

[Mike Marandola]

Originally Posted by marshall

I think it is time to revive this discussion. Has anyone come up with a better bumper fabric material that they would care to share?

We're experimenting with sailcloth now. We're also looking into embroidering the numbers rather than painting them.

I'm curious to see what revisions FIRST makes to the rules this year for bumpers. They need to be easier for rookie teams to implement and for veteran teams to assist with. We advocated to Andy to make some corner brackets to make them easier to build. He had a prototype at CMP that was pretty cool but no word yet on whether they will be building it or teams will be able to buy it. I'm hoping for it personally.

Are you talking about this and/or this? If so, they are available now. And have you felt the iron on number that came in the kit? We have used them for the two previous years and they are pretty slick against standard Cordura nylon. I haven't had a chance to test sailcloth or ballistic nylon but I would imagine it would be just as slippery.

[FrankJ]

We have been embroidering numbers on bumpers for some time. You have to be sure to specify stroke width & height to the embroiderer. I looks great & durable. I am not sure if it helps or hurts in T-Bone situations.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by marshall

I think it is time to revive this discussion. Has anyone come up with a better bumper fabric material that they would care to share?

We're experimenting with sailcloth now. We're also looking into embroidering the numbers rather than painting them.

I'm curious to see what revisions FIRST makes to the rules this year for bumpers. They need to be easier for rookie teams to implement and for veteran teams to assist with. We advocated to Andy to make some corner brackets to make them easier to build. He had a prototype at CMP that was pretty cool but no word yet on whether they will be building it or teams will be able to buy it. I'm hoping for it personally.

When I had the ear of an AndyMark engineer at this year's Global Community Conference I pushed hard for them to make an include a bracket system for the up coming season's chassis. He did say it was something that was worth consideration.

Originally Posted by Mike Marandola

Are you talking about this and/or this? If so they are available now.

Those are for the old C-base and would not work with the most recent AM14U and since the 2015 drive base is reported to be the AM14U2 it seems unlikely they would work for it either.

[JesseK]

What about making our own high-durability 'cloth' out of UHMW tape backed by aircraft-grade duct tape?

Has anyone tested sailcloth-on-sailcloth friction (sorry for not searching)?

The Cordura, under rough FRC conditions, seems to have the puncture resistance of a balloon... There are 2 'cuts' in our bumpers this year after years of having nothing wrong.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Mike Marandola

Are you talking about this and/or this? If so, they are available now. And have you felt the iron on number that came in the kit? We have used them for the two previous years and they are pretty slick against standard Cordura nylon. I haven't had a chance to test sailcloth or ballistic nylon but I would imagine it would be just as slippery.

I was not talking about either of those but rather something entirely new. Andy had a 3D printed version of it that was cool and the inspectors were all eyeballing in St Louis. Hard to describe but basically an extrusion profile that allows two boards to be fit into it at 90 degrees to each other. It would definitely simplify the bumper corner construction process for teams, at least we think so.

We tried the iron on numbers in the kit but had no luck with them. I'm not going to claim we put them on correctly mind you but we really couldn't get them to stick. We opted for paint this past year since we had used it previously. That and the standard bumper fabric.

We are aiming to do more this year... assuming the rules allow for it.

How about pool noodles? Who is using hollow core and who is using solid core?

[Mike Marandola]

Originally Posted by marshall

I was not talking about either of those but rather something entirely new. Andy had a 3D printed version of it that was cool and the inspectors were all eyeballing in St Louis. Hard to describe but basically an extrusion profile that allows two boards to be fit into it at 90 degrees to each other. It would definitely simplify the bumper corner construction process for teams, at least we think so.

We tried the iron on numbers in the kit but had no luck with them. I'm not going to claim we put them on correctly mind you but we really couldn't get them to stick. We opted for paint this past year since we had used it previously. That and the standard bumper fabric.

We are aiming to do more this year... assuming the rules allow for it.

How about pool noodles? Who is using hollow core and who is using solid core?

Ah, I see what you are saying. Yeah they are quite tricky to put on.

[PayneTrain]

We got our bumpers screen-printed this year and used the same fabric (a tougher, slicker alt to Cordura, no idea where it came from unfortunately) and the blue covers came back from Alamo just fine but the red ones were totally rekt from the rough play. No other issues.

We need to get new bumper material, but I don't want to dump money into bumpers in case any of the rumored changes come to pass.

Not buying into any conspiracies, just that bumpers are a very specific assembly in FRC and the cloth for them doesn't really serve a different purpose, and plywood and noodles aren't preferred building materials for other stuff on the robot.

[FrankJ]

Not buying into any conspiracies, just that bumpers are a very specific assembly in FRC and the cloth for them doesn't really serve a different purpose, and plywood and noodles aren't preferred building materials for other stuff on the robot.

Congratulations, you just figured out the game hint. 2015 will be Arial assist without bumpers & unlimited CIMs on the drive train. The name will be "Rockem Sockem"

[MrBasse]

Originally Posted by marshall

We tried the iron on numbers in the kit but had no luck with them. I'm not going to claim we put them on correctly mind you but we really couldn't get them to stick. We opted for paint this past year since we had used it previously. That and the standard bumper fabric.

We use a t-shirt press and t-shirt vinyl like Siser Easy Weed. The key to getting them to stick is to use even pressure. An iron is a really bad tool for that. See if there is a local place that will press them for you. Any custom clothing shop should be able to do it for pretty cheap. You only need 8 sets of numbers and 8 presses, so compare that to having 8 t-shirts made. Even if they charge you and cut the vinyl I would have a hard time believing it would be more than $50. I have all of the stuff in my classroom so it is pretty simple for us.

[Joe Johnson]

Didn't get to see any of the teams that used "SailCloth" Or "Ballistic Nylon" up close but I am definitely interested in trying to find ways of keeping robots mobile when others are trying to immobilize them. I'd love to try some of these out.

Does anyone have links to online sources for either of these?

A Google search pointed me to here for "sailcloth" (Red / Blue). Here is another variety of Dacron sailcloth that comes in red and blue that looks FIRST legal. Are any of these materials the ones that teams used successfully.

As to "Ballistic Nylon" there seems to be a 1050 variety and a 1680D variety. The 1050 doesn't seem to come in Red & Blue (or at least I couldn't find it). The 1680D has some shades of red and blue that seem to be FIRST legal for bumpers (link here)

Same question to folks. Is this the Ballistic Nylon folks have used or is there something else I should be looking for?

Do tell.

Joe J.

[Dylan Gramlich]

Team 1126 used a combination of sailcloth bumpers on the side with cordura on our front and back bumpers. This allowed us to use friction to our advantage to pin and escape from a pin. We also use the reversible bumpers (blue on one side, undo some velcro and flip it to red).

We changed our bumper material between events and saw a noticeable difference in our ability to get through defense. If anyone has any questions let me know!

[Brian Selle]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

A Google search pointed me to here for "sailcloth" (Red / Blue). Here is another variety of Dacron sailcloth

The first link is for lightweight 3/4 oz cloth used for spinnakers. It will rip with the slightest snag on something sharp. The second link for 4oz dacron is what you want. There are tons of sailcoth types and weights available, I'd recommend visiting a local sail loft and feeling it first hand.

[Travis Schuh]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

Didn't get to see any of the teams that used "SailCloth" Or "Ballistic Nylon" up close but I am definitely interested in trying to find ways of keeping robots mobile when others are trying to immobilize them. I'd love to try some of these out.

Does anyone have links to online sources for either of these?

A Google search pointed me to here for "sailcloth" (Red / Blue). Here is another variety of Dacron sailcloth that comes in red and blue that looks FIRST legal. Are any of these materials the ones that teams used successfully.

As to "Ballistic Nylon" there seems to be a 1050 variety and a 1680D variety. The 1050 doesn't seem to come in Red & Blue (or at least I couldn't find it). The 1680D has some shades of red and blue that seem to be FIRST legal for bumpers (link here)

Same question to folks. Is this the Ballistic Nylon folks have used or is there something else I should be looking for?

Do tell.

Joe J.

Last season we used the 1680 that you linked to.

I think that some people are getting their sail cloth from Seattle Fabrics. You may need to call to get the blue and red Dacron because their website is pretty sparse.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

Didn't get to see any of the teams that used "SailCloth" Or "Ballistic Nylon" up close but I am definitely interested in trying to find ways of keeping robots mobile when others are trying to immobilize them. I'd love to try some of these out.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone found a high CoF, tear resistant cloth that a dedicated defensive robot could use? (basically the flip side of what Dr. Joe is asking)