One tool/machine to level up a moderate shop

[Travis Schuh]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

An alternative is an X-Y milling vise for your drill press. You can do light milling with somewhat more flexibility than the lathe setup. Avoid the very cheap ones, they are terribly inaccurate. These are great for drilling accurate hole patterns as well (and often that's the only use they see).

I agree that you could use an XY vice on a drill press for preciser hole centers to centers, but I would highly recommend against doing milling. Most drill chucks are held in with just the friction of a morse taper. Milling will add side vibration loads that will loosen this hold, and ultimately have the chuck fall out on you.

[scottandme]

Not to pile on top of the previous comments, but also note that drill chucks are unable to safely sustain radial loads, even when used in a proper milling machine.

Some tiny benchtop milling machines do have morse taper spindles, but they are designed for (small) radial loads, and include a drawbar like a regular milling machine would have.

On topic - used is the way to go with your budget, but make sure you have someone familiar enough with a mill/lathe to make sure it's in decent operating condition. A beat to death bridgeport with a ton of backlash wouldn't be ideal.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by scottandme

Not to pile on top of the previous comments, but also note that drill chucks are unable to safely sustain radial loads, even when used in a proper milling machine.

Some tiny benchtop milling machines do have morse taper spindles, but they are designed for (small) radial loads, and include a drawbar like a regular milling machine would have.

On topic - used is the way to go with your budget, but make sure you have someone familiar enough with a mill/lathe to make sure it's in decent operating condition. A beat to death bridgeport with a ton of backlash wouldn't be ideal.

Good call on the drill chucks.
On backlash: it's not a huge problem if you have a DRO and a reasonably heavy mill. I've been meaning to ask our maching mentor about tightening up the backlash on our Bridgeport, as it currently has around 0.060" of backlash. It has never been a problem for us as we only take light to medium cuts in aluminum, so as long as you're careful and don't heavy climb mill it should be fine.
I agree that somebody knowledgeable about mills/ lathes whould go with you. Take along a checklist or something at the very least. Make sure that there's no rust in the spindle or on the ways, that it's not pitted to oblivion and flat, etc.

[James3245]

Count me as a mentor who has been pleased with a cold saw.

We've been cutting (yes it is slow) aluminum for a couple of seasons without injury. We did break a blade once when the stock was not long enough to clamp properly. Because of the low rpm the incident was alarming and instructive but not particularly dangerous.

I will accept slow cuts, and higher upfront cost, to avoid the hazard (see other CD posts for scary stories of flying metal) of having anyone, especially students, cut metal with a high-speed chop saw. Not to mention the screeching.

A pneumatic rivet gun set up is relatively cheap and as posted earlier a great next tool. And quite safe.

[Oblarg]

Can anyone who's used an x-y milling vise on a drill press answer my question about edge-finding?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

Can anyone who's used an x-y milling vise on a drill press answer my question about edge-finding?

I haven't used one, but why would it be any different than on a mill?

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by Cory

I haven't used one, but why would it be any different than on a mill?

A drill chuck isn't nearly as precise as a collet - seems possible to me that it might not gain you much. As we don't have an edge-finder (since we don't have a mill), I'm just looking to know if it'd be a worthwhile purchase if we were to pursue this.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

A drill chuck isn't nearly as precise as a collet - seems possible to me that it might not gain you much. As we don't have an edge-finder (since we don't have a mill), I'm just looking to know if it'd be a worthwhile purchase if we were to pursue this.

Any non-garbage drill chuck should have minimal runout. We will use an edgefinger in a drill chuck on our manual mill.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by Cory

Any non-garbage drill chuck should have minimal runout. We will use an edgefinger in a drill chuck on our manual mill.

Agreed. Your drill chuck won't be the limiting factor in finding that edge. More likely, you'll lose accuracy from your mill/drill press not being trammed and the actual edge finder itself (only good to within a few thou).

A drill press really isn't as accurate as a mill even if you're just drilling holes and not taking any passes with an endmill. It's just not made to be as accurate.

[Oblarg]

Thanks for the replies.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

Do you find that putting one of these on a standard drill press holds tight enough tolerances for tube/gusset plate constructions? We've been doing those purely by match-drilling, but being able to drill them independently would be very nice.

Also, if you do have your drill press set up with one of these, do you just use an edge finder in the drill press the same way you would on a mill?

I find that each hole needs to be center-punched, even with an X-Y table, because the bit tends to wander otherwise. Considering that, I don't use an edge finder but line it up by eye.

I suppose one could use a center drill; in this case, I'd still edge it up by eye. Don't expect to hold 0.001" tolerances, and I can judge 0.005 by eye if I'm careful.

Originally Posted by asid61

Drill presses are not designed AT ALL for milling.

Originally Posted by Travis Schuh

but I would highly recommend against doing milling.

I thought that was clear in my post, but perhaps not.

Think of cutting a slot 2" long in 1/8" aluminum tubing: Drill holes at the endpoints, cut out the slot, then finish it with a mill in a drill press. Or other light milling. Hogging out metal from a chunk is unlikely to work well, simply because the drill press table will move (I don't care how tight you clamp it).

Spindle bearings are angular roller bearings. Their failure mode is quite predictable and safe: They get noisy. That's why they are used for car wheel axles: Even in a very bad case, the wheel stays on. Wobbles maybe, but stays on (at least until the spindle breaks off).

[techhelpbb]

When you can get a small manual Sherline or Taig for less than the cost of some industrial drill press it makes no sense to mill with a drill press. These little machines may be made from aluminum but they will cut aluminum all be it slowly. Plus you can basically carry them around all by yourself and they only need a simple conventional wall output for power.

I have a MaxNC10 CNC mill I am cleaning up. Complete with closed loop stepper control. This thing even has an NC tapping attachment (a stepper motor and tap chuck next to the head that it can deploy via aux ports on the control). Even with my modifications I can carry the MaxNC10, the extra attachments and 4th axis around all by myself. I am thinking of building a case so that I can ship it more easily and use mist coolant. I bought it used and fixed it up when they damaged all the leads during the shipping.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Jared

Agreed. Your drill chuck won't be the limiting factor in finding that edge. More likely, you'll lose accuracy from your mill/drill press not being trammed and the actual edge finder itself (only good to within a few thou).

A drill press really isn't as accurate as a mill even if you're just drilling holes and not taking any passes with an endmill. It's just not made to be as accurate.

An edgefinder is better than a few thousandths. The good ones (Starrets are like $10 on ebay) are good to a thousandth or better.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by asid61

An edgefinder is better than a few thousandths. The good ones (Starrets are like $10 on ebay) are good to a thousandth or better.

An edgefinder in a drill chuck on a drill press (which likely isn't trammed as well as a mill would be) is unlikely to do any better than a few thousandths. You'll also need a really smooth x-y table to be able to move the part in small enough increments and react to the edge finder. It may be possible with smooth parts and an edge finder on a mill in a collet in good shape to get accurate to within one thousandth.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Jared

An edgefinder in a drill chuck on a drill press (which likely isn't trammed as well as a mill would be) is unlikely to do any better than a few thousandths. You'll also need a really smooth x-y table to be able to move the part in small enough increments and react to the edge finder. It may be possible with smooth parts and an edge finder on a mill in a collet in good shape to get accurate to within one thousandth.

That's not the edgefinder itself. That's still the drill press.