Building a PVC pit frame and looking for suggestions

[travislefebvre]

Me and a few other members of our team are designing our pits and we are currently focused on our Frame which we will hang banners from and mainly use as a means of display and to define our pit area. We're looking for any and all suggestions any of you may have about pits in general, but especially any suggestions you may have regarding a PVC frame. Currently we are thinking of using 1.5" maybe 2" PVC for the areas of the frame that be under the most stress, and then 1" for areas that are not. We would like to utilize the full 10x10x10 pit dimensions. I've searched but I haven't really found much about Pit frames made out of PVC. Any and all suggestions be greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance.

[markgryzwa]

http://www.sears.com/z-shade-commercial-canopy-10'-x-10'/p-00662509000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=006625090 00&kispla=00662509000P&kpid=00662509000&mktRedirec t=y

We use a 10x10 canopy like this. Hang lights and banners from the frame elements. Works great.

[travislefebvre]

I thought you couldn't have a "roof" like structure over your pit? Even with the Canopy gone you still have the framing above.

[brandon.cottrell]

I would make sure whether you buy a frame or make one: make sure your ground level is supported.

I've seen several flimsy and tipping PVC frames, and there's nothing as sad as a semicollapsed cube, it's really embarassing. Also be advised in the flexibility of the pieces, as well as their tendancies to curve over time if something is hanging from them.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by travislefebvre

We're looking for any and all suggestions any of you may have about pits in general, but especially any suggestions you may have regarding a PVC frame.

Don't.

Plain and simple, I think PVC pits are terrible. While PVC is affordable, it's not the right material for what you are trying to do. In 2011, we visited a regional as spectators, took photos of several team's pits, and made a slideshow for internal use on our team called "Pit Areas - The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly." We still use it annually to train our students on what not to do in the pit area, but more importantly, it inspired the revamp of our pit area in 2012, which really transformed our whole team in turn.

The big thing is to avoid work on the floor whenever possible and to have some sort of organizational method to keep from boxes, bins, and worse, scattered parts and tools from being all over the place. Neatness is key! Rolling toolboxes are good. Shelves are good. Container boxes and parts organizers are good.

The pit area should be a presentation booth, that is equipped for minimal maintenance and repair when necessary. It should not be the junk pile that fell out of the back of your van and into the arena.

[hrench]

Team 1108 has used a PVC-framed pit since I've been with, and it's really just fine. The upper panels are kept assembled with the screen-printed banners in them, while the sides and legs are just stuck-into the fittings and zip-tied through drilled holes.

This year at championships we did switch the back-top bar to EMT to give it enough strength to hold a projector, but generally, it's all made from 2" PVC.

We have to repaint it fairly regularly, but I expect that would be the same for painted metal.

And it does sag a little across a ten-foot span. We keep a set of eight-foot tubes to use in case we go to a smaller event without the normal pit space.

Here's a pic of it partially assembled so you can get the gist:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...type=3&theater

Here was at champs with the projection image:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...type=3&theater

The structure is only for presentation--it doesn't actually include any storage or functionality. I've considered adding LED lighting (pre-wired) to it inside the tubes, but we already have lights that raise up from our tool box.

Whatever you do, just remember people will look at it and associate your team with it. Do something you're comfortable with.

[Qbot2640]

I will second the info about PVC being saggy and requiring constant repainting. I don't know if this is the right choice for you - but we used electrical conduit and it is working great. We were able to fabricate corners that the long sections attach to with thumbscrews - and instead of painting we covered our with colored duct tape. Two years - seven FRC events, plus tons of demonstrations and the pipes still look great. Plus, the conduit (we used half-inch) is much more compact and easier to set up and tear down.

[Jim Wilks]

Originally Posted by Qbot2640

I will second the info about PVC being saggy and requiring constant repainting. I don't know if this is the right choice for you - but we used electrical conduit and it is working great. We were able to fabricate corners that the long sections attach to with thumbscrews - and instead of painting we covered our with colored duct tape. Two years - seven FRC events, plus tons of demonstrations and the pipes still look great. Plus, the conduit (we used half-inch) is much more compact and easier to set up and tear down.

Do you really mean rigid steel conduit or are you using EMT?

[Qbot2640]

Originally Posted by Jim Wilks

Do you really mean rigid steel conduit or are you using EMT?

EMT - but it is quite rigid. No - not like the thick liquid-tight steel stuff, but way, way more rigid than even 2" PVC.

[protoserge]

To add to the other comments, I would recommend not developing your pit for 10'x10'x10'. In my experience, we have had space ranging from 8-11' per side - sometimes all four sides were different lengths.

[George C]

In 2012 we replaced our pit made out of ABS pipe. It was shaky, wobbly, a pain to put up, transport and store and very weak. We've used the same pit structure since - several regionals, championships, off-seasons with no problems The basic structure is telescoping ham radio antenna tube. It fits into 5 bags. 4 people can put it up in under 20 minutes and take it down in less. At least 5 teams have made very similar pits with no complaints. It also expands in 6" increments from 8' x 8' to 10' x 10' Detailed instructions are here. http://1334.ca/content/Pit_Design_and_Construction.pdf

[brndn]

No matter what, I would avoid a "roof" and "siding." It's more fun for spectators (assuming they can look down on the pits at a particular venue) to be able to see what's going on in all the pits. One wall of banners is fine, but I'm disappointed when I see a bunch of little houses. No "walls" also lets you better interact with your neighbors in my opinion.

[Jon Stratis]

We've used PVC to frame the back of our pit for many, many years. We started with two big buckets, filled them with cement and sunk in the initial supports - this ensured the frame wouldn't tip over, but the buckets were a pain to transport. Since then, we've had a parent build us a pair of rolling cabinets that go in the back corners, and we built the frame supports into those - same basic concept, as all the weight is down low. The frame works alright and is repainted every few years, and is extremely cheap, considering we've used the same frame for 8 years now... but personally, I want us to get something that looks more professional.

[Jin Hayashi]

Originally Posted by travislefebvre

I thought you couldn't have a "roof" like structure over your pit? Even with the Canopy gone you still have the framing above.

Our team re-imaged ourselves last year and switched from PVC to a canopy pit.

Could you reference the rule that prohibits the use a canopies or roof like structures? I know many teams used coverings. I did not see it in rules Section 4.8.2 Team Pits of the Administrative Manual.

Our PVC pit was only 10 feet high at the back wall, the other sides were closer to 6 feet. PM me is you want to see photos of it.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Jin Hayashi

Could you reference the rule that prohibits the use a canopies or roof like structures? I know many teams used coverings. I did not see it in rules Section 4.8.2 Team Pits of the Administrative Manual.

I would guess it is a mis-interpretation of the bolded section 4.8.2.1 (2014 manual) below

For safety and because of insurance regulations:

Teams cannot build any structure that supports people, or items for storage, above the workspace in their team Pit;
No team station structures, signs, flags, or displays can be higher than 10 feet above the floor;
Team station signs, flags, and displays must be securely mounted to the structure

While canopies are legal and many teams use them, I would personally caution against it... it makes pits very dark at most events. If you do use one, plan ahead for appropriate lighting!