Making sure EVERY Team can do Auto

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by ENeyman

Right, the points will be assessed after teleop ends. But you would still get points, right?

Yes, but why are you wasting your time in auton on something that's not going to get you any points anyways?

[ENeyman]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Yes, but why are you wasting your time in auton on something that's not going to get you any points anyways?

My question is: Does it get you points? No where in the manual can I find that stacks of gray totes made during auton will not be counted.

My thinking is that since auton this year is so dependent on your other two alliance partners, maybe it's more worth it to try to score some gray totes and get your alliance some "for-sure" points.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by ENeyman

My thinking is that since auton this year is so dependent on your other two alliance partners, maybe it's more worth it to try to score some gray totes and get your alliance some "for-sure" points.

You know, I'm curious as to why FIRST wants us to make a "tote set" to score any points. Why can't the points be split among each tote (i.e one tote gets 7 points, two totes gets 14, 3 totes gets 21)? This just seems to penalize an alliance so much...like, I don't even see any point to it. This just forces an all or nothing methodology and really hurts teams who are able to push one over to the zone but their alliance partners can't do so.

[Thorn]

Grey totes are worth 2 points, so moving some grey totes around in autonomous is not a good use of time. Most teams should be able to at least get their robots to just drive forward into the auto zone; this is not much different than the minimal auto points from last year.

What makes this challenge really interesting is the stacking. If one robot moves a crate to the autozone, how does another robot find it, and then orient itself the correct way to place the next tote on top of it? The vision target is on one side, but the crate may have been placed down at an angle. Plus we need to avoid hitting each other. My team plans to write a few different programs and then decide which one to run at match time. (You can quickly ftp in to change a config file; the new RoboRio can re-deploy code without rebooting so it only takes 10-15 seconds to upload a change)

I really wish they gave some points for two crates stacked in autonomous. But it's all or nothing. Either all 3 are stacked for 20 points, or they just count as being moved into the zone for 8 points. That's a huge difference.

Is stacking three totes going to be like catching last year? It's theoretically possible, but no one actually does it during a match.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by Thorn

Is stacking three totes going to be like catching last year? It's theoretically possible, but no one actually does it during a match.

I think it will be much more like a 3-ball auto from last year. It is theoretically possible, but you will be able to count on your fingers the teams that can do it well consistently.

[Whippet]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

I think it will be much more like a 3-ball auto from last year. It is theoretically possible, but you will be able to count on your fingers the teams that can do it well consistently.

You have ≥ 254 fingers?!?

[Tammyo]

If one of your alliance members during competition does not have a autonomous, what would be your plan of action?

[x86_4819]

Either use a robot that can score a full set of game pieces, or push them with another robot so that you get the robot set at minimum.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by Tammyo

If one of your alliance members during competition does not have a autonomous, what would be your plan of action?

Quickly write the code to move them into the auto-zone, test it, then use it?

It is maybe a maximum of 6 lines in C++/Java, not sure about LabView.

The alternative is to just get an alliance member to push them into the auto-zone.

[JohnFogarty]

Originally Posted by Tammyo

If one of your alliance members during competition does not have a autonomous, what would be your plan of action?

Our programming team is being taught how to program at a general level for all three languages that teams can use to program their bot. We will have some easy to implement software written readily available should a team need an autonomous before a match. We have a large enough programming squad that should we be given enough time, we could assist teams on the practice day if need be so that everyone that we possibly can help can benefit from our work.

[who716]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Yes, but why are you wasting your time in auton on something that's not going to get you any points anyways?

exactly there are numerous other things that can be accomplished in auto that would be a better option if if it not scoring the totes or cans

[Tim Sharp]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Yes, but why are you wasting your time in auton on something that's not going to get you any points anyways?

It could be a "least bad strategy" if you had particularly weak alliance partners.

[alopex_rex]

Points for teleop are assigned at the end of the match. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that means that totes stacked during autonomous will be scored just the same as those stacked during teleop.

I don't know if that would make sense, but seeing as it's one of the few auton strategies that doesn't require assistance from alliance partners it may be worth looking into.

[ENeyman]

Originally Posted by alopex_rex

...but seeing as it's one of the few auton strategies that doesn't require assistance from alliance partners it may be worth looking into.

Yeah, in MAR at least there are always a few bots that don't have a solid auton. Our thinking was, in addition to a "yellow-tote auton", we would have a "gray-tote auton" that gets us 4-6 points without relying on our teammates. Obviously, these would be considered teleop points and therefore wouldn't help our rankings as much.

Still, if anyone could provide a rules clarification, that would be great.

[Elius_Linkus]

Originally Posted by ENeyman

....Still, if anyone could provide a rules clarification, that would be great.

As per the rules, the idea behind all this is in 3.1.2

3.1.2.1 AUTO
During AUTO, points are awarded for ROBOT SETS, TOTE SETS, CONTAINER SETS, and STACKED TOTE SETS. (Noting of course that this doesn't mention grey totes.)

3.1.2.3 TELEOP
During TELEOP, points are awarded for scored TOTES, RECYCLING CONTAINERS, and LITTER.

Even more specifically, the TELEOP subsection TOTES states that a grey tote is "scored if it is fully supported by a SCORING PLATFORM and no portion of the TOTE extends above the top of the BACKSTOP." Nothing indicating that totes have to be stacked during tele-op, just that they have to be in scoring position at the end of the match.

And again in 3.1.2.4 Point Values, we find that "TELEOP scores, with the exception of Coopertition, are assessed based on the state of the FIELD when the ARENA timer displays zero (0), or, if not all elements have come to rest, five (5) seconds after the ARENA timer displays zero (0)."