Making sure EVERY Team can do Auto

[who716]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Yes, but why are you wasting your time in auton on something that's not going to get you any points anyways?

exactly there are numerous other things that can be accomplished in auto that would be a better option if if it not scoring the totes or cans

[Tim Sharp]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Yes, but why are you wasting your time in auton on something that's not going to get you any points anyways?

It could be a "least bad strategy" if you had particularly weak alliance partners.

[alopex_rex]

Points for teleop are assigned at the end of the match. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that means that totes stacked during autonomous will be scored just the same as those stacked during teleop.

I don't know if that would make sense, but seeing as it's one of the few auton strategies that doesn't require assistance from alliance partners it may be worth looking into.

[ENeyman]

Originally Posted by alopex_rex

...but seeing as it's one of the few auton strategies that doesn't require assistance from alliance partners it may be worth looking into.

Yeah, in MAR at least there are always a few bots that don't have a solid auton. Our thinking was, in addition to a "yellow-tote auton", we would have a "gray-tote auton" that gets us 4-6 points without relying on our teammates. Obviously, these would be considered teleop points and therefore wouldn't help our rankings as much.

Still, if anyone could provide a rules clarification, that would be great.

[KineticCougar]

Every team should definitely do auto! At the very least, all three robots per alliance should move. I personally think that all teams should move a recycle container into the auto zone as that gives 8 pts for a set. This would add up to 12 pts for the alliance. There should be some cooperation between the teams of the alliances before match to make sure we are all on the same page

[Elius_Linkus]

Originally Posted by ENeyman

....Still, if anyone could provide a rules clarification, that would be great.

As per the rules, the idea behind all this is in 3.1.2

3.1.2.1 AUTO
During AUTO, points are awarded for ROBOT SETS, TOTE SETS, CONTAINER SETS, and STACKED TOTE SETS. (Noting of course that this doesn't mention grey totes.)

3.1.2.3 TELEOP
During TELEOP, points are awarded for scored TOTES, RECYCLING CONTAINERS, and LITTER.

Even more specifically, the TELEOP subsection TOTES states that a grey tote is "scored if it is fully supported by a SCORING PLATFORM and no portion of the TOTE extends above the top of the BACKSTOP." Nothing indicating that totes have to be stacked during tele-op, just that they have to be in scoring position at the end of the match.

And again in 3.1.2.4 Point Values, we find that "TELEOP scores, with the exception of Coopertition, are assessed based on the state of the FIELD when the ARENA timer displays zero (0), or, if not all elements have come to rest, five (5) seconds after the ARENA timer displays zero (0)."

[tindleroot]

The very easiest strategy for autonomous would be to move forward 5 feet into the auto zone - this could be programmed within minutes especially if you had a template so you could just change some numbers to fit that team's robot.

The second easiest strategy is to have a robot start at the driver wall and push one tote forward into the auto zone - this gets a few more points

These two auto periods I believe will be EXTREMELY common this year, so every team should have programs written to do this (three robots pushing one tote each will work well), but many teams are going to try for the "triple-stack auto" (like three-ball from last year)

[Elius_Linkus]

Originally Posted by tindleroot

....many teams are going to try for the "triple-stack auto" (like three-ball from last year)

I know I only ever saw a limited number of bots that even did a two ball autonomous, much less a three ball. Considering that teams were expected to use their default scoring mechanism last year, I don't think that multi-ball autonomouses (autonomi?) were expected to be normal, whereas this year, it would almost seem the opposite; I doubt we'll see all three of an alliance's robots interacting with the totes in order to form a stack (coordinating three robots to find the totes, the other robots, stack them, and make it into the auto zone in 15 seconds seems unlikely.) I would think that the only way we're going to see stacks in autonomous is by the efforts of a single bot, whilst its teammates are busy staying out of its way. In any other case, I doubt the robots will be able to collaborate beyond moving the totes into the auto zone.

[Abrakadabra]

Originally Posted by KineticCougar

Every team should definitely do auto! At the very least, all three robots per alliance should move. I personally think that all teams should move a recycle container into the auto zone as that gives 8 pts for a set. This would add up to 12 pts for the alliance. There should be some cooperation between the teams of the alliances before match to make sure we are all on the same page

I agree. I think the "universal minimal autonomous" that everyone should strive for should be to simply push a RECYCLING CONTAINER into the AUTO ZONE as quickly as possible without touching the yellow TOTE. That would then make it possible for a "stacker bot" to move across in a straight line after two CONTAINERS are clear and pick up all three yellow TOTEs, make a quick turn, and deposit the stack in the AUTO ZONE for a STACKED TOTE SET and a (relatively) easy 20 points.
(+ 4 points for the ROBOT SET = 24 points total).

In the case where there is no "stacker bot" on the alliance, then the alliance would still get the CONTAINER SET for 8 points and the ROBOT SET for an additional 4 (12 points total). (Note that the CONTAINERs do not even have to remain upright; they just need to be fully contained in the AUTO ZONE).

[RoundTabler]

Originally Posted by Abrakadabra

I agree. I think the "universal minimal autonomous" that everyone should strive for should be to simply push a RECYCLING CONTAINER into the AUTO ZONE as quickly as possible without touching the yellow TOTE. That would then make it possible for a "stacker bot" to move across in a straight line after two CONTAINERS are clear and pick up all three yellow TOTEs, make a quick turn, and deposit the stack in the AUTO ZONE for a STACKED TOTE SET and a (relatively) easy 20 points.
(+ 4 points for the ROBOT SET = 24 points total).

In the case where there is no "stacker bot" on the alliance, then the alliance would still get the CONTAINER SET for 8 points and the ROBOT SET for an additional 4 (12 points total). (Note that the CONTAINERs do not even have to remain upright; they just need to be fully contained in the AUTO ZONE).

This is very similar to what I was thinking. The other option is for a "universal auto" to be that teams take their yellow tote to the landmark.

[bvisness]

Originally Posted by alopex_rex

You can only score 3 recycling containers:

It may be that you can score two Container Sets during auto:

A CONTAINER SET exists if any three (3) RECYCLING CONTAINERS are fully contained by the AUTO ZONE at the end of AUTO.

If you got 6 containers into the auto zone then this rule would imply that there are 2 Container Sets at the end of auto.

Probably a good one for the Q&A...

[wilderbuchanan]

I was wondering why they kept mentioning the landmark and i think i finally know why. It could be the "decided place" where all three robots (or two robots if one grabs two bins) would place the yellow totes. This would mean a team would know the general area where their partner placed their tote. Then using the tracking the robot could figure out exactly where to stack the other totes.

[TimTheGreat]

Should there be a github repo that people can add to with different code for different languages/drives that just move forward, that way robots can position themselves in front of a container and push it into the auto zone no prob?

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by wilderbuchanan

I was wondering why they kept mentioning the landmark and i think i finally know why. It could be the "decided place" where all three robots (or two robots if one grabs two bins) would place the yellow totes. This would mean a team would know the general area where their partner placed their tote. Then using the tracking the robot could figure out exactly where to stack the other totes.

Prediction. No team will stack a yellow tote in autonomous on top of a tote already moved (other than a small brush) by another team.

[Elius_Linkus]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Prediction. No team will stack a yellow tote in autonomous on top of a tote already moved (other than a small brush) by another team.

My thoughts exactly. That being said....

Originally Posted by RoundTabler

This is very similar to what I was thinking. The other option is for a "universal auto" to be that teams take their yellow tote to the landmark.

In regards to what the "Universal Autonomous" ought to be, I'd figure it would be better for teams to push their recycling bins into the auto-zone, being that:

1. A CONTAINER SET is worth more than a TOTE SET (6 pts as opposed to 8)
2. It allows robots that can stack totes in autonomous easier access to the totes