Odd things the rules allow, and should probably be changed

[pbhead]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Orlando Regional Elims last year. Something went wrong on Bacon and they needed to be a push bot for a match, so they added batteries for ballast (not connected electrically), ran it by an inspector and got it okayed. Then it was retroactively declared illegal and the alliance was retroactively DQ'd after they had advanced. Pretty painful on all sides. Last year's R21 equivalent was slightly fuzzy on whether ballast batteries were legal. It seemed like ballast batteries were probably illegal, but only after some heavy careful word parsing. Glad to see they've made it abundantly clear this year.

Thanks for the explanation. I cant wait to get to do the same with the noodle agreement!

[aldaeron]

Tethered mini bots. So long as they all share 1 battery, 1 PDP, etc you can make as many connected mini bots as you want.

[2789_B_Garcia]

Originally Posted by aldaeron

Tethered mini bots. So long as they all share 1 battery, 1 PDP, etc you can make as many connected mini bots as you want.

Why stop at minibots? You could have multiple full size bots stacked to the limit sharing a power source LoL

[SirBubsalot]

The only thing I've seen for #1 so far is G7, but that's just for pre/post match.

[magnets]

I'm pretty sure it's legal to make a giant crane in the center of the field... That would be one awesome robot.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by magnets

I'm pretty sure it's legal to make a giant crane in the center of the field... That would be one awesome robot.

Provided it doesn't go over 78 inches. Hmm, I just noticed, no metric equivalents this year.

Regarding transporting tall stacks, you might fall afoul of this rule:

G27 ROBOTS and anything they control, e.g. a TOTE, may not contact anything outside the FIELD.
VIOLATION: Offending ROBOT will be DISABLED.

Questionable if a container toppling off the top of a stack and onto a volunteer outside the field is still in "control" of the robot - but do you want to take that risk?

[dipmeinaluminum]

Originally Posted by magnets

I'm pretty sure it's legal to make a giant crane in the center of the field... That would be one awesome robot.

My mind just exploded, a robot with no wheels
and
your alliance partners feeding TOTES to the.... Cranebot!!!!!!

[magnets]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Provided it doesn't go over 78 inches. Hmm, I just noticed, no metric equivalents this year.

Regarding transporting tall stacks, you might fall afoul of this rule:


Questionable if a container toppling off the top of a stack and onto a volunteer outside the field is still in "control" of the robot - but do you want to take that risk?

Our team, with limited engineering resources this year, probably is not going to take these risks. However, there are several awesome teams out there who could build an awesome crane. You don't need to drive or anything....

[BBaltrusch]

I just noticed a potential heartbreak for alliances. Since average scores determine qual winners one bad match completely sinks you.

G5 gives a foul for 2 HP in an alliance zone, and an additional foul for every tote put on the field during that time.

G6 gives a foul for touching the tote and chute door at the same time.

A team that didn't read the rules could put all 30 totes on the field while violating both these rules, racking up 61 fouls and -366 points. With this all happening to the side the other alliances might not notice until the end and find out they got 0 points.

[Whippet]

Originally Posted by BBaltrusch

A team that didn't read the rules could put all 30 totes on the field while violating both these rules, racking up 61 fouls and -366 points. With this all happening to the side the other alliances might not notice until the end and find out they got 0 points.

I'm ~90% sure that either a referee or field crew member would inform the offending teams of their errors rather than simply allowing penalties to accumulate.

[2789_B_Garcia]

Originally Posted by dipmeinaluminum

My mind just exploded, a robot with no wheels and your alliance partners feeding TOTES to the.... Cranebot!!!!!!

Cranebot? If you really want your mind blown, consider the fact that nowhere in the rules does it say the robot has to be in contact with the floor...I predict this is the year we see robots go airborne.

Originally Posted by Whippet

I'm ~90% sure that either a referee or field crew member would inform the offending teams of their errors rather than simply allowing penalties to accumulate.

We've never been told about fouls until after matches, and we've learned to sit tight and be ready to send someone into the question box after a match for clarification. Not every team has developed that practice...at events you go to, do refs/field crews typically seek out teams during/after matches to talk about fouls? We do that for alliance partners, I'm just curious if event crews do that, also.

[Whippet]

Originally Posted by 2789_B_Garcia

Cranebot? If you really want your mind blown, consider the fact that nowhere in the rules does it say the robot has to be in contact with the floor...I predict this is the year we see robots go airborne.



We've never been told about fouls until after matches, and we've learned to sit tight and be ready to send someone into the question box after a match for clarification. Not every team has developed that practice...at events you go to, do refs/field crews typically seek out teams during/after matches to talk about fouls? We do that for alliance partners, I'm just curious if event crews do that, also.

Last year, our human player was reminded mid-match by (I don't know if it was field reset or a referee) about the rule preventing him from extending past the tape on the barrier. Had that not happened, we would have ended up with quite a lot of penalties that match.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by 2789_B_Garcia

We've never been told about fouls until after matches, and we've learned to sit tight and be ready to send someone into the question box after a match for clarification.

Referees DO signal that fouls are happening, as they happen. Watch for the flags to go up; refs will often point at the offending robot.

Not every team has developed that practice...at events you go to, do refs/field crews typically seek out teams during/after matches to talk about fouls?

During practice, it's not uncommon for SoCal refs to flag down a flagged team and let them know what penalties they picked up during the practice match. During qual matches, the Head Referee will inform the MC what the fouls were and the MC will announce them.

[RallyJeff]

Originally Posted by 2789_B_Garcia

We've never been told about fouls until after matches, and we've learned to sit tight and be ready to send someone into the question box after a match for clarification. Not every team has developed that practice...

At the very least, there would have been a ref waving a flag and pointing at the person committing the foul when they did it.

Depending on the game, it's sometimes possible for a ref to quickly say something to the person committing the infraction. Aerial Assist was a bit unique in that regard - it was so dependent on split-second entry from the refs that they had to stay at their tablets through the entire match.

Originally Posted by 2789_B_Garcia

at events you go to, do refs/field crews typically seek out teams during/after matches to talk about fouls? We do that for alliance partners, I'm just curious if event crews do that, also.

My personal approach as a head ref: if a team's behaviour during the match suggests to me that they don't understand the rules, or if they keep getting the same foul over and over, I'll try to make a point of talking to the team. Of course, the match schedule and everything else going on sometimes doesn't allow me to do this.

At least at the events I've been to (Ontario and Quebec), it's standard practice for the head ref to give the MC/game announcer a summary of all the fouls, and these get announced when the final match score is displayed. Do other areas not do this?

[2789_B_Garcia]

Here in Texas, we do get the flag wave, as well as the announcement from the MC, however newer teams don't always know to keep an eye/ear out for that, but I've never seen a ref or field crew come to talk a team about a foul...I've seen field crew stop an unsafe robot before it enters the field, but I've never seen an interaction during the match, and I don't think I've ever seen foul discussions/explanations other than the MC announcement and in the question box.