Two Recycle Bins on a Stack of Totes

[Paul Boehringer]

Hey all,

Is it legal to put two recycle bins on a stack of totes and will it be scored. Assuming both are on the gray totes.

Could they be touching? or must they remain totally separate?

[wolfgang42]

Originally Posted by 2015 Game Manual, §3.1.2.3

A RECYCLING CONTAINER is scored if it is fully supported by only scored Gray TOTES.

I don't see anything in the manual specifying that multiple containers can't be supported on the same stack of totes. (Certainly multiple stacks of totes can be used to support one container.) (IANAL, YMMV, etc.)

[noah00000]

From page 20 of the Game Manual.
"A RECYCLING CONTAINER is scored if it is fully supported by only scored Gray TOTES."

This seems to imply that a recycling container stacked on top of another recycling container would be invalid, as part of its support would be an object that is not a grey tote, in this case a recycling container.

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by noah00000

From page 20 of the Game Manual.
"A RECYCLING CONTAINER is scored if it is fully supported by only scored Gray TOTES."

This seems to imply that a recycling container stacked on top of another recycling container would be invalid, as part of its support would be an object that is not a grey tote, in this case a recycling container.

I don't believe this is what his question meant. I think he was asking can two Recycling Containers be on top of the same Gray Tote.

[Rangel]

Edit: Nevermind. I realized the points are for the level and don't multiply the tote scores.
My curiosity is whether one recycling container can give bonus points for 2 separate stacks if completely supported by both stacks. Here is an example of what I am talking about:

[MrBasse]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

My curiosity is whether one recycling container can give bonus points for 2 separate stacks if completely supported by both stacks. Here is an example of what I am talking about:

The bin doesn't give bonus points, it's score is multiplied by the level it reaches. (table 3-2)

[Paul Boehringer]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

My curiosity is whether one recycling container can give bonus points for 2 separate stacks if completely supported by both stacks. Here is an example of what I am talking about:



Edit: Nevermind. I realized the points are for the level and don't multiply the tote scores.

I think that would only count for one bin because the scoring definition is how high now how it is supported.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

The bin doesn't give bonus points, it's score is multiplied by the level it reaches.

That configuration currently counts by the current rules though, which is interesting in itself. If a bin tips onto another stack of totes then as long as it is only resting on other gray scored totes then it should count.

[dellagd]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

My curiosity is whether one recycling container can give bonus points for 2 separate stacks if completely supported by both stacks.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that a CONTAINER applies some sort of 'bonus' to the stack it is placed on.

This is not the case at all. CONTAINERS are separate game-pieces that have values on their own, and that value is simply due to the height of the lowest point of the CONTAINER. There is no multiplying effect on the TOTES it is supported by, hence the amount of TOTES the CONTAINER'S base contacts is irrelevant (as long as it is > 1 )

[MikLast]

What i think he means is that you have a stack of totes, just a regular stack, and you have two containers on top of them. i may be wrong, but i think there is a rule against it. We did try to do this anyways though, and there was not really a way to have them perfectly stable, one little touch or random person walking by knocked it over.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by MikLast

What i think he means is that you have a stack of totes, just a regular stack, and you have two containers on top of them. i may be wrong, but i think there is a rule against it. We did try to do this anyways though, and there was not really a way to have them perfectly stable, one little touch or random person walking by knocked it over.

"I think" doesn't fly at competition, so you're automatically wrong.

"I can't find a rule against it" is the correct terminology in this case. Note, though, that you're going to have a lot of fun getting that container up there with one already there...

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by EricH

"I think" doesn't fly at competition, so you're automatically wrong.

"I can't find a rule against it" is the correct terminology in this case..

Sorry for my poor terminology, i will note that for future posts.

Originally Posted by EricH

"Note, though, that you're going to have a lot of fun getting that container up there with one already there...

Like i said in my last post, we tried to do it, and any little wind or touch would topple the whole stack over, even with just 2 or 3 totes. I doubt its possible, but there could be a way that i never thought of.

[cglrcng]

Figures 3-4 & 3-5 and the Table 3-2:Teleop Point Values. (Scored RECYCLING CONTAINER 4 per LEVEL) Level is defined elsewhere lowest level of the Recycle Container. (But remember Level 1 cannot be reached until you stack at least 1 Grey Bin first...See Figure 3-4). There is no rule (that I can find), against what you are doing or intending...and laying it down in the gap will hold it there quite nicely.

But, there is no advantage to what you intend. As if that were a 4 + 4 stacks (can't see the bottom from the rendering), or 2 stacks of 4 grey bins each, placing that can there would attain the following point values 8 bins X 2 points each=16 points, plus 1 Recycle Bin=4 points X Level 4 or 4X4=16 Points, plus 6 points for the properly scored litter (I see it peeking up there). (30 points total if they are 2 stacks of 3 bins....RC4X3 Levels=12+Bins12+6Litter=30 which it what that rendering actually shows).

Or, a grand total of 30 points as pictured...(Then the refs would throw a red card at you, for building the extra backstops on the field...LOL. Just Joking.)

___________________________
RECYCLING CONTAINERS
A RECYCLING CONTAINER is scored if it is fully supported by only scored Gray TOTES. Points for a scored RECYCLING
CONTAINER are awarded based on the lowest LEVEL in which any portion of the RECYCLING CONTAINER resides. In Figure 3-4, colors have been added to indicate the LEVELS on the BACKSTOP. In both examples (A and B), the lowest part of the RECYCLING CONTAINER is in LEVEL 3.


"A RECYCLING CONTAINER is scored if it is fully supported by only scored Gray TOTES." (Emphasis Mine)...Therefore, if you attempted to set Gray Tote down, and put 2 stacked Recycling Containers on top of it and each other as in Tote/RC/RC/Litter. The grey tote would score (2 points), the lower RC would score 4X1 level or 4 points, the upper RC would not score & the litter would not score (in fact it would be +4 for the other alliance as unprocessed litter), as it is not "fully supported by only scored grey totes." (It would actually be supported by only a scoring Recycling Container).

That is my reading anyway (this game has a whole lot to be considered)...But, of course the FIRST Q&A is the proper place to ask that question as I am reading the rule very literally there, and some could say including the Q&A, that I lawyered the rule and accept the Gray Tote/RC/RC Stack. (Nothing we say here on CD has any bearing on the actual FIRST FRC Game Rules). Q&A opens Jan. 7th.....I see many, many questions already.

[Harman341]

It's not illegal to stack 2 recycling bins on top of each other, but the one on top won't get any points because it isn't fully supported by only scored grey totes.

[cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Harman341

It's not illegal to stack 2 recycling bins on top of each other, but the one on top won't get any points because it isn't fully supported by only scored grey totes.

I think the same...But, I would personally like to see the answer via a Q&A answer before it happens on the field. Just 1 of many so far.