The Noodle Agreement

[Kevin Selavko]

It is already removed from the game as it was intended intended, and launching the noodles across the field would give you the possibility of 4 points instead of 1.

[Kevin Selavko]

Or to really mess with teams they could put noodles by the starting cans and totes.

[MrJohnston]

I really don't like the noodle agreement. If the rules are not changed with an update, my team will participate - those noodle points will really weigh heavily into scores in preliminary rounds. Good robots that do not participate in the agreement will be eliminated. Frankly, I really don't like this.

I would really like to see the rule changed: unprocessed litter on my side would cause my team a four point penalty.

[JSchell]

Originally Posted by bh202548

I think it makes more sense that alliances try and score half of their noodles in the recycling bin(depending on the two alliances capabilities) and the other 5 of the noodles should be left for the noodle agreement. This leads to max points unless one team got all of the recycling bins on the step. So do you think this is better or that it is better to leave all ten noodles for the noodle agreement?

That's what I was thinking, too. That would involve less risk in case the other alliance doesn't follow through. And it would give you an opportunity to score 6 points instead of 4 (which is a more realistic goal with just 5 noodles, instead of 10).

[221Sarahborg]

As being on drive team last year I found it extremely difficult to get some of the teams including human players to stick to a plan that we had executed and decided on before our match, let alone two alliances on a very impactful agreement that you won't have time to discuss with the other side while the match is in play.
It's also a matter of full trust in both alliances to follow through with your decision made, let alone the possibility of it working out correctly. If anyone breaks that agreement then it will make you or your alliance members look untrustworthy and risk losing that possible consideration for alliance selections. Once those noodles are ran over or torn up after a few matches it may not make it so easy to fly it, like we discovered at a team meeting tonight. I know last year there were a few human players at my home regional who claimed they were great at throwing in the ball without fouling, yet almost cost us the matches due to fouls from the human player. That could make it a risk at least with some teams and competitions that those who may need to throw in the noodles aren't good at it.

[cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Squillo

(Setting aside the red/blue solution, whether by noodle color or tape,) I'm curious as to why most people seem to be advocating the "+2/-2" solution, rather than simply a "-4" to the alliance with the unprocessed litter (rather than +4 to the opposite side). Can someone explain to me why "+2/-2" is better - as an incentive to avoid unprocessed litter, and also eliminate the benefit of TNA - than "-4"?

Negating TNA would require a zero difference or equation.....Noodle (Unprocessed Litter) is worth +4 to the opposing alliance...simply put, 20 noodles dumped is worth +40/+40 or 80 points split (software changes cost money & time), changing rules. +2/-2 each is still 4 points.

But, dump 20 noodles (Unprocessed litter using the +2/-2 penalty, Unprocessed litter still worth 4 points a each....only you dump 10 on your side +2X10=20 points & -2X10=-20 points equals ZERO GAIN for each side & alliance....Noodle Dilemma gone like the wind...NO TNA (The Noodle Agreement)=FULLY RECYCLED & only a minor scoring code software change.

It is the easiest solution....And I'm a lazy man looking to fully negate the foolish possibility of TNA and have each pc. of Litter still be worth the same math amount as designed by the GDC.

-4 is another solution, but the GDC made it +4 for a reason....Recycling LITTER IS IMPORTANT in RECYCLE RUSH.

[cglrcng]

Bulldozing Litter once great stackers have stacked won't be as easy as you think once 2 walls are built. LOL. You better have a camera on that bot! Or you will be driving through your own hard built stacks.

[cglrcng]

+40 points every match to both Alliances is almost impossible to pass up if fairly within the rules.....=The 2015 FIRST FRC NOODLE DILEMMA! Think with your noodle. Qualifying Averaged scoring determines everything this year w/ tiebreakers! (It only takes 6 teams to force all to abide by TNA, or simply "goodbye yellow brick road)".

=Not fun when left in the dust, simply because of a poor thought out ruleset.

There are enough stacking dilemmas if you do not use a Grey TOTE and place that Recycling Container w/ litter therein or thereon. Mistakes will be made. And they will be a shame. Each time performed.

[P.J.]

I don't know if this has been suggested, as I may have missed it in the thread, but in my mind the easiest rule change to prevent shenanigans would be to remove any sort of point value to unscored noodles. If a noodle is lying on the ground it is treated the same as a tote or recycling bin on the ground, e.g. it means absolutely nothing.

This prevents the noodle agreement, prevents bad blood between teams, and allows teams that design the ability to manipulate noodles to go about their job unmolested. I just think this is the simplest solution.

[The Machine]

I think that with FIRST's value of good sportsmanship, people will honor their word, and in the case that they don't, word will spread quickly that they can't be trusted.

[JesseK]

Poolitics are all fun and games until Saturday morning when feelings get hurt as teams go for ranking positions.

What if we want to practice noodles in bins on Friday? Are we against the spirit of TNA? What if a team says NO, THOU SHALT ABIDE AND NOODLE TEH FIELD, and then tries to hoard the noodles to do so?

TNA is a tangent that needs to be made irrelevant, IMO.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Poolitics are all fun and games until Saturday morning when feelings get hurt as teams go for ranking positions.

What if we want to practice noodles in bins on Friday? Are we against the spirit of TNA? What if a team says NO, THOU SHALT ABIDE AND NOODLE TEH FIELD, and then tries to hoard the noodles to do so?

TNA is a tangent that needs to be made irrelevant, IMO.

Honestly, I don't think anyone would be mad at a team for doing this. It's their decision. The only time people will get upset is when a team says they will go along with TNA and doesn't do it. It won't even be that big of a deal though if you both put in the noodle one at a time.

[Andrea C.]

I am not a fan of the Noodle Agreement. I believe that it unnecessarily detracts from the mission of the game to the detriment of teams making the effort to meet its challenges through engineering. Hard-earned points scored by robots performing very complicated tasks should not be overshadowed by humans inflating scores by tossing noodles on the field. As the game manual stands right now, though, it is a legitimate scoring strategy that must be considered.

I appreciate all the thought given by other forum members to potential solutions to this dilemma, and think a couple of them are good ways to preserve the integrity of Recycle Rush. I had a different thought that I haven't seen come up yet, though, and I'd like your opinions on it:

Let's imagine for the sake of argument that the GDC didn't want to alter the point structure of the game or bother with color-coding noodles, but also didn't want Noodle Agreements to be a factor. What if FRC simply asked teams not to entertain any kind of Noodle Agreement? In your opinions, would the honor system prevail, or would there be backdoor dealings? Would suspicions of shady pacts damage reputations and relationships, or would teams trust in the honesty of their counterparts?

(My first post on Chief Delphi -- please be gentle!)

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by Andrea C.

I am not a fan of the Noodle Agreement. I believe that it unnecessarily detracts from the mission of the game to the detriment of teams making the effort to meet its challenges through engineering. Hard-earned points scored by robots performing very complicated tasks should not be overshadowed by humans inflating scores by tossing noodles on the field. As the game manual stands right now, though, it is a legitimate scoring strategy that must be considered.

I appreciate all the thought given by other forum members to potential solutions to this dilemma, and think a couple of them are good ways to preserve the integrity of Recycle Rush. I had a different thought that I haven't seen come up yet, though, and I'd like your opinions on it:

Let's imagine for the sake of argument that the GDC didn't want to alter the point structure of the game or bother with color-coding noodles, but also didn't want Noodle Agreements to be a factor. What if FRC simply asked teams not to entertain any kind of Noodle Agreement? In your opinions, would the honor system prevail, or would there be backdoor dealings? Would suspicions of shady pacts damage reputations and relationships, or would teams trust in the honesty of their counterparts?

(My first post on Chief Delphi -- please be gentle!)

Personally if FIRST came out and said they don't want the noodle agreement but refused to make any rule changes then I think it changes nothing. Plenty of people have made pretty reasonably suggestions on how to fix this and to simply tell teams we don't like this is not going to cut it.

[RachetIsLife]

One of the things you could do is have the other team put one noodle in, then your team puts one in, then back and forth to ensure that no team has more than a 4 point advantage.