Is Autonomous worth it?

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by jee7s

Not to single out Patrick here, but this is indicative of a lot of "thinking before the change." There's an assumption here that you need to move to do each acquire-stack operation. Separately, there's an assumption that you need vision tracking to find the totes. But, I can just as easily picture a situation where a robot touches all of the totes with a mechanism at match start, pulls them toward each other in a known and predictable way, stacks them, and carries them into the Auto Zone and sets them down. Not that my team is planning on building that mechanism, but the stack can be made without moving the robot in (as a guesstimate) 5 seconds. Then drive forward and set it down. 20 points in 8 seconds. Boom done.

I know my team has struggled with the change. It's pretty dramatic, really opens up possibilities, but also takes effort to shift the frame of reference.

Yes, that's true--you could. But "120 lbs" and "twenty-foot robot" are not things I expect to see, at any point, by any team. The teams that could pull it off won't, because they know the value of the containers on the step (which you won't be able to go get in any realistic manner if you're already 21' wide)...the teams that can't pull it off, well, can't pull it off.

[You also don't need vision tracking, if you know where the totes are (which you do) and you know where your robot starts (which you rather should.) Encoders and maybe a gyro should be sufficient.]

[jee7s]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

Yes, that's true--you could. But "120 lbs" and "twenty-foot robot" are not things I expect to see, at any point, by any team.

There are many reasons that a robot may weigh 120lbs, particularly if it's a forklift and needs a counterweight.

As for a 20 foot robot, one prototype 2789 is working on involves the most distant ends of our robot being 22 feet apart at match start. And, it has a valid strategic purpose. After we are done with that strategic purpose, the robot's envelope is reduced to 27"x42".

I'm going to botch the quote, but like Morpheus said in the matrix: "Free your mind."

[JamesCH95]

OP - auto is always worth it. It's 15s to get points, if you do nothing you are wasting 15s, a reasonably long portion of the total match time.

Originally Posted by jee7s

There are many reasons that a robot may weigh 120lbs, particularly if it's a forklift and needs a counterweight.

As for a 20 foot robot, one prototype 2789 is working on involves the most distant ends of our robot being 22 feet apart at match start. And, it has a valid strategic purpose. After we are done with that strategic purpose, the robot's envelope is reduced to 27"x42".

I'm going to botch the quote, but like Morpheus said in the matrix: "Free your mind."

So someone is trying to build the 'wings of death' robot that grabs all four cans off of the barrier first thing... interesting.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

So someone is trying to build the 'wings of death' robot that grabs all four cans off of the barrier first thing... interesting.

Team 71 makes its return?

[jee7s]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

So someone is trying to build the 'wings of death' robot that grabs all four cans off of the barrier first thing... interesting.

Who said anything about wings?

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

Team 71 makes its return?

Originally Posted by jee7s

Who said anything about wings?

I put 'wings of death' in quotes as it was simply what our team called the idea. Seemed easier than calling it: 'that idea where the robot grabs all four cans off of the barrier first-thing with a large extendable mechanism and then collapses down to a smaller profile for the rest of the match.' You may call it whatever you wish, of course.

[tindleroot]

Originally Posted by TimTheGreat

The top autonomous score last year was 75, which in many matches was half or more of the total score. This year, the top is only 32. This includes getting the 3 totes stacked, which gives 20 points. My question is, do you think that it is worth the programming hours for vision tracking (which I know does not need to be done)and testing and praying that other robots don't get in the way for a measly 20 points?

I warn you against comparing different years when considering point values. A 6-stack with a recycling bin on top is worth 32 points, which is less than a high goal triple assist from last year, but the assists are easier and faster.

This year's game is going to have lower point scores than last year, so a 32-point auto will probably be equivalent to a full 75 point auto from last year.

A great example of differences in points is 2010 Breakaway. The World's highest score that year was 29 in the infamous Curie match 100, and 29 is much less than other years.

My point is, if you are treating points for different games equally, then it is a good idea to get away from that since the scores are not equivalent.

[rsegrest]

OP, each team has to answer the question on their own. I believe that what happens at each regional will depend on the teams involved. While many will only see one or two robots that function in auto I am relatively sure that champs will see many robots that have auto functionality especially in the finals.

[Ryan Caldwell]

I think if you want to succeed in being at least a 3rd bot in this game your robot better at least move/push/punch a container to the auto zone on its way there during auto. other than that...cake...or maybe its frosting...

[mathking]

Remember the change. Consider that a robot does not necessarily have to be huge (in terms of mass) to start while in contact with all of the yellow totes. Think of small things that could fairly easily pull a tote to a robot.

[mitchklong]

Teams that score well in autonomous tend to get picked, so its at least worth thinking about it.

Here is one full auto scenario.

- Assume 2 alliance bots are capable of shoving their bins to auto zone. I think about 70% of them can at least attempt it.

- The third bot can now be pointed down a line of 3 yellow totes and a bin at the end. You just a contact switch that tells you when you hit the tote and a way to stack it. A machine could roll forward and stack each one, then shove the bin and itself into autozone.

Tough but not impossible. There will be teams that can do this.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by mathking

Remember the change. Consider that a robot does not necessarily have to be huge (in terms of mass) to start while in contact with all of the yellow totes. Think of small things that could fairly easily pull a tote to a robot.

You might want to be careful there, since G7-B says "fully supported by the floor, SCORING PLATFORM, and/or SCORING PLATFORM ramps on their ALLIANCE’S side of the FIELD". You might run into trouble if you have a mechanism so lightweight it ends up supported by a TOTE. Also entanglement hazards are still a bad thing, even if not immediately illegal.

[SciBorg Dave]

Originally Posted by sodizzle

I'm trying not to count anything as not worth it. Because matches can be won or lost by 1 point. It's happened plenty of times before.

This year the competition is not head to head. So winning a match is not that important. But 20 points per match over the course of the seeding matchs will be very important.

[Lil' Lavery]

Is getting 20 points that are no longer available during tele-op worth it? Seems like a pretty easy answer to me.

[MrJohnston]

I look at it like this:
If I am not gaining the autonomous points, I need to be doing something else that is more productive than what I can do during those 15 seconds.... So, If I can get 20 points by myself in autonomous, in order to skip it, I need to be starting a tall stack have a bin and two or three totes inside my robot before the end of the auto period.

These are choices to be made at the time of the match. For instance, if my two partners do not have autonomous routines that can go for the points, but each can send their robots to the landfill, it makes a lot of sense for me to grab the auto points and prepare to load at the feeder station after the 15 second period.

If the question is: "Is it worthwhile to develop a good autonomous routine?" I would say "absolutely."

If the question is: "Is it worthwhile to perform that autonomous routine?" I would say, "It depends on the capabilities of your alliance partners."