pic: 2003 TechnoKat Ball Drive : Patent Pending

[Joe Matt]

I never criticized the Tcats at all. I said I like it. I'm just saying that mabey the effort to build another bot or another drive system could have gone to inspiring another team.

[Andy Baker]

Originally posted by JosephM
Were the TechnoCats right to spluge on their drive while many teams still don't move?

Just a question.

Hopefully, this thing may inspire some people. FIRST is about inspiration.

Also, as for the cost... the parts on this cost about $700. I don't see it as a splurge.

Andy B.

[Chris]

Wow.......Just wow.....I'm amazed by this and the other techno Kat robot. I say congratulations....Not only for having two awesome robots, but for being brave enough to try. And to WernerNYK who cares if its an advantage, its just cool that they did it. I mean its a totally revolutionary drive train, its great that it just exists, even if its not an advantage( which I personally think it is).

Chris

Good job, don't listen to negative people

[David Kelly]

Originally posted by JosephM
I never criticized the Tcats at all. I said I like it. I'm just saying that mabey the effort to build another bot or another drive system could have gone to inspiring another team.

what they did, is inspiring other teams. it can give others new ideas for future competitions.


explain what you meant by "mabey the effort to build another bot or another drive system could have gone to inspiring another team."

that makes no since to me...

[Madison]

Originally posted by WernerNYK
I dont really see the great advantage of something like this.... Obviously extreme mobility, but not so much more than can be accomplished with other drive systems, or that such mobility would really be necessary, or even that easily controlled.

I'd like to actually see this thing and evaluate it further.

The advantage is that it's far less technically complex than any swerve drive.

After all, swerve drives are designed to emulate the sort of movement this can provide, doing so by mimicking the single plane that intersects the sphere's surface that is riding along the floor.

It's no different than a swerve drive, really, but it is simpler. At least, as far as I can tell. . . the major disadvantage is that it's driven by two relatively smooth surfaces interacting with one another, and that means "stalling" is a possibility.

[SuperJake]

What can I say other than 'Wow'? I mean it is really cool! I'm deffinetly gonna make some time to stop by your pits in Houston! Good luck!

[Joe Matt]

?7?i]Originally posted by David Kelly [/i]
what they did, is inspiring other teams. it can give others new ideas for future competitions.


explain what you meant by "maybe the effort to build another bot or another drive system could have gone to inspiring another team."

that makes no since to me... [/quote]

Why not take some of the money that would have gone to building another bot or a more complicated drive system and give it to a struggling team or a new team?

[ZACH P.]

Originally posted by David Kelly
I've seen some video of this in action, and i'd have to say that it is amazing.

i'd like to see that video, does anyone have it?

oh, awesome 'bot, but i'm worried about the power transfer to the actual suface of the balls, how do you acomplish the need friction while still allowing it to move in other directions? And how is the traction on the HDPE?

Awesome, i never thought anyone would actually implement a ball drive.

Thanx

[WernerNYK]

I wasnt really being negative at all. New ideas and concepts are always great. I'm just a bit skeptical as to what kind of difference this will actually make compared to other traditional drives, which is why I said that I would like to see it in person in closer detail... possibly try moving it around.

I mean, look at team 190... we're always coming up with brand new ideas (translational drive, "wonder wheels," CVTs, INS, amongst other things). I'll never knock an good idea, new engineering concepts... I think it's great. Believe it or not, I know I personally was thinking of a similar type of systems earlier this year, and I know a few of my teamates were as well.

And I think someone else mentioned that it could "stall"... this is entirely true... a more descriptive term would be slipping. When a system lies entirely upon friction, slippage will -- at some point -- occur... even our CVT system will slip under certain circumstances.

[Madison]

Originally posted by WernerNYK
And I think someone else mentioned that it could "stall"... this is entirely true... a more descriptive term would be slipping. When a system lies entirely upon friction, slippage will -- at some point -- occur... even our CVT system will slip under certain circumstances.

"Slipping" occurs in all drive trains, really, whether it occur where the wheels interface with the carpet, or where the chain meets a sprocket. Gears, well, can't slip.

I used "stall" because it seems to me that, unless the point at which the omniwheels and the balls slip is the same, the drivetrain might do funny things. Of course, it seems likely that the balls would slip somewhere before the omniwheels slipped along the carpet, and at that point, they'd be acting as casters. It's getting to that point that seems like it'd be the biggest problem to me. That is, if the ball is slipping some and isn't driving at the same speed as the omniwheel, the drivetrain would become inefficient and could, possibly, bind.

I'm interested in seeing how the Technokats overcame that issue, or if it was really an issue at all.

[Joe Matt]

But the ball system is more suseptable to slipping compared to the traditional motors/gears/wheels system.

[Gope]

WHAT?!?!?!


how does this work. I've read the whole thread but noone has taken the time to really explain the system, someone please explain it to me....thanks








Also, I might just be imagining this, but didn't i read somewhere that you had to compete with the robot that you check in? If so then you guys wouldn't have the option of using the second bot, right?

[Madison]

Originally posted by JosephM
But the ball system is more suseptable to slipping compared to the traditional motors/gears/wheels system.

It's no more susceptible to slipping than wheels interfacing with the carpet are.

[Jeremy_Mc]

You guys keep claiming that this will "inspire other teams". Perhaps to put the extra effort out and raise the bar, yes...but no more than your average joe team would, though.

I don't think they really sparked a new trend in drive trains. They're patenting it anyhow, so it's not like anyone can emulate them.

Personally, (not criticizing) but i think that takes away from the community. Patenting a drive train makes it a little awkward if a team makes a drive system somewhat similar, and then somehow it ends up they sue them over it or something. I'm not saying they would, but if they wouldn't, then why patent?

Odd thoughts yes...but I'm just curious as to why you would do that?

And oh yes...an explanation of the system would be rather cool. I think I have it figured out but it's probably totally off.

[edit] one more question, if someone were to pick that end of the robot up, would the balls fall out? or are they attached?[/edit]

[edit2] has your patent been applied for? or is it pending? there is a difference... [/edit2]

*jeremy

[Jnadke]

Originally posted by Gope
How does this work. I've read the whole thread but noone has taken the time to really explain the system, someone please explain it to me....thanks

The omniwheels are like regular wheels but those rubber things on there allow them to spin sideways. If you don't understand how they work, do a search or ask and I will explain further.

Anyways, the ball portion, if you look at it, is connected to the main drive gearbox, powered by a drill motor. The drill motor drives the ball forward/backward, and spins the omni-wheels forward and backward. Theorhetically it should drive much like a standard 2 wheel drive robot if this was all they had.

However, if you look, the chiaphua motors are on the side of the balls, and spin them sideways, giving the robot a horizontal force. When the robot is at a standstill, if you drive the chiaphuas, the balls will propel the robot sideways. The omniwheels, having those easy-spinning rubber things, will just follow the direction of the balls and will act like a translational drive.

When the robot is moving, and you drive the balls, from the sound of what Baker said, the robot will behave much like a car. It won't move sidways, but the front of the robot will turn to point at a new direction. Basically, it's like stopping with a traditional tank drive, turning to point in a new direction, and going again. The difference is they can do this on-the-fly.


I haven't seen it in action, so I am not positive on this. I am only going off what I see in the picture and what was said.

Originally posted by Gope
Also, I might just be imagining this, but didn't i read somewhere that you had to compete with the robot that you check in? If so then you guys wouldn't have the option of using the second bot, right?

Yes, and no. They do allow you to make your robot modular. You have to pass inspection with every module subset you plan to use in place. Technically, this is one big module in reference to the Robot Controller. I don't really see any difference. Just as long as they can meet Rule K3, under $3500, with both robots then I'm happy.

Originally posted by Jeremy_Mc
Personally, (not criticizing) but i think that takes away from the community. Patenting a drive train makes it a little awkward if a team makes a drive system somewhat similar, and then somehow it ends up they sue them over it or something. I'm not saying they would, but if they wouldn't, then why patent?

I think we have a misconception here on what a patent is. A patent doesn't prevent someone from using an idea altogether. It just prevents someone from benefitting/making money off it. You can still use the design for your use. However, if a company wants to put it into a product and sell it, then they have to pay the TechnoKats.