# of Totes WORTH Stacking?

[CalTran]

I think that it really depends on what kind of manipulator you end up building, and what sort of alliance you end up with. If you have a robot that can only stack from the bottom (As in lift stack, insert tote on bottom, place, repeat) then it's probably best to aim for 4-6 and maximize from there, but if you have a robot that can build stacks top down, then it might be more advantageous for your robot to move around and "cap" existing stacks with a container. If you're the only robot that can quickly stack, you might just want to go with 3-tote-container stacks and then score as many totes as you can after that.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

When The GreenHorns and 'Snow Problem played a few matches together we found that 4 totes seemed to be the most efficient to stack for our particular robots. We both have what I would call lower-middle tier robots you would find at a competiton. That is to say, it's doubtful that we would make it to the Playoffs at a large event.

I can't speak for the Greenhorns robot since I haven't seen it in action much, but I am nearly certain that the 'Snow Problem robot would be picked for the playoffs at any regional.

I am not trying to defend my team because I am insulted. Rather, I'd like to think I know the capabilities of an average team, and I am almost certain that the average team would not be able to produce something that can do as well as the Snow Problem robot.

[sviridovt]

It really depends on the robot stability, however just like someone said, tote score is linear, so higher stacks are a waste unless you have a can on top (and if you are going to put a can you might as well put a noodle in it.

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by cadandcookies

You can also stack a tote with a bin on top of it on top of 5 totes. Or two totes and a bin on top of four.

Yes, you can. However, that does not change the fact that, at the moment you are finishing the stack, nearly the entire bin is going to be above 6'6". Thus, the "challenge." You can certainly minimize that time (i.e. approaching a stack of 4 totes and placing 2 totes+ 1 bin on top). However, that bin will still be largely unsupported for a brief amount of time. Moreover, you now necessitate the creation of two separate stacks in order to build one tall one. This increases the amount of maneuvering the robot must do for each stack - increasing the amount of time it takes to make that stack.

I'm not saying either thought is a bad idea at all. I'm just saying that level six stacks with bins present some additional challenges that may make it more time-effective to max out at five.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

Yes, you can. However, that does not change the fact that, at the moment you are finishing the stack, nearly the entire bin is going to be above 6'6". Thus, the "challenge." You can certainly minimize that time (i.e. approaching a stack of 4 totes and placing 2 totes+ 1 bin on top). However, that bin will still be largely unsupported for a brief amount of time. Moreover, you now necessitate the creation of two separate stacks in order to build one tall one. This increases the amount of maneuvering the robot must do for each stack - increasing the amount of time it takes to make that stack.

I'm not saying either thought is a bad idea at all. I'm just saying that level six stacks with bins present some additional challenges that may make it more time-effective to max out at five.

I wasn't saying it didn't present extra challenges, just that there are ways to mitigate those challenges (that of course have tradeoffs of their own.

I'm going to bet that for most teams, it'll be easier to pick up a tote with a "standard" grip than a bin with 4" of grip. And it will probably be more stable as well with a bin properly placed.

In response to Caleb's comment: i think the build quality of the Snow Problem robot is probably middle to low tier, but the strategy is one that would make for an excelleny second or third pick, especially for teams that have the extra six weeks to "do it right" and improve the build quality.

[kachea716]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

Summary, lift should be able to elevate an object 4.5ft. Allows you to stack a tote on top of 3 totes on the step and allows you to put a container on top of 4 totes if you are grabbing it by the lip.

It makes sense that you can get another tote on a 3 stack but you wouldn't be able to lift a container on top of a 4 stack of totes which is about 4feet tall, and if the lift only elevates the (about) two foot container 4.5ft. (grabbing it by the lip and not the bottom) it couldn't be stacked.

[Thatguyfrom716]

Stacking any number of totes takes time. If one were to stack 3 totes, you will be able to easily stack the container on top of them. If you were to make a stack of over 6 totes, it would waste a lot of time and you risk knocking the entire stack over.

[who716]

I wonder how much this poll will change at the end of builds season it would be interesting to see!!

[Munchskull]

The stack hight dilemma has four factors: the space the stacks take up, stability of the stack, if you have a container, and finally stack time vs unload time.

First off the most basic stack high vs stack out problem becomes, if I only stack out how soon will I run out of space to score totes. After a number of low stacks you will start running out of scoring space. Logic dictates to build up not out for this factor.

Next is the stack stability. The higher the stack the less stable. This seems to be the crux of this debate. I personally think that in this game mistakes will be made and robots will bump the stacks, if the stacks are tall then it endangers your stack more. So short stacks is prefered here.

Second to last we have, does the stack have a container on it. This is simple if yes then stack high, you have three containers for sure, so to make the most of the containers you should stack them high. They are your most limited resource in this game.

Finally we have the stack time vs unload time conundrum. If your robot can stack faster than it can unload then you would be better to stack high rather than short.this is because if you can get it in 6 totes and unload then it'll be faster than getting in 3 totes and unloading then repeating that process.

Time1= 6×totes+1×unload
Time2= 2 (3xtotez+1×unload)

Here the scores are bother the same but the extra unload instance takes time from scoring. In this case I think high stacks are better.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by kachea716

It makes sense that you can get another tote on a 3 stack but you wouldn't be able to lift a container on top of a 4 stack of totes which is about 4feet tall, and if the lift only elevates the (about) two foot container 4.5ft. (grabbing it by the lip and not the bottom) it couldn't be stacked.

You don't have to use the same attachment point to lift the totes and containers and the top of your lift won't only reach 4.5ft from the floor. I said be able to elevate an object 4.5ft. That means your lift or arm has 4.5ft of displacement. How you pick up the totes and containers and where they are attached to that lift or arm is up to you. We'll have a video up shortly of our prototype arm, it can do all things I said.

[jengl]

I think this question depends a lot on what kind of robot you plan on building. Do you plan on making a short, fast robot, or a bulky, large robot? Speed would make multiple stacks feasible, and as soon as multiple stacks become a possibility, it is my opinion that trying to balance 6 totes isn't worth the time it takes to stack them.