pic: Team 870 Suction Cups

[Spikey]

Originally posted by Clark Gilbert
There is another way...

Force it down, and then pull it up.

I've done some research on the internet and there are a ton of suction cups out there, (even rectange shaped). It should be really interesting what teams use this year and how they use them.

Our robot can do that, we push the cups down and then bulld them down to have all four wheels contact to create more resistance. The pneumatic is so strong that is pulls the HDPE towards the robot!! Maybe thats because our mock ups bad, but that could be a problem with people who use 2 huge vaccum cups.
I think suction cups will prove to be a determing factor this year.

[UlTiMaTeP]

But back to the point I was trying to make, the amount of force that a bot has going 12 FPS weighing 130 pounds far outweighs what ive seen in the suction cups. I also think that even if a robot that was rammed at full speed into a robot secured with suction cups *IF* they even to withstand that kinda punch, There seals would for the most chances break.

[sevisehda]

Suction cups will work good for the first few practice matches and maybe some into the qualifying but by the time finals hit that HDPE will look like a scratching post covered in dust, dirst, and oil. Everyones pro-suction point is saying they can withstand exert a huge force on a glass-smooth surface, chances are the HDPE will be more like a rough concrete. If teams still want to go with suction cups it seems logical to go with 20 small ones instead of 1 or 2 large ones to minimize the risk of trying to lock onto an area with a scratch.

Do you want to take the chance that during finals your bot trys to lock onto the joint between the 2 pieces of HDPE and another bot knowcks you off like you weren't even there?

Also Ramp-doms have to stay for nearly the entire 2 minuts and even if the scratches only allow a slow leak chances are the ramp-dom would have to re-attach every so often.

The best option is to put some _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ breaks on the bottom of your bot and get a COF of about 2.0 or if your budget allows and you can find it get some _ _ _ _ _ which will give you a COF of about 3.5.
Friction brakes are more reliable and lighter.

[OneAngryDaisy]

Just remember- you have to be on the top of the ramp to use your suction cup...

if you aren't first.. tough luck..

Originally posted by sevisehda
Suction cups will work good for the first few practice matches and maybe some into the qualifying but by the time finals hit that HDPE will look like a scratching post covered in dust, dirst, and oil. Everyones pro-suction point is saying they can withstand exert a huge force on a glass-smooth surface, chances are the HDPE will be more like a rough concrete. If teams still want to go with suction cups it seems logical to go with 20 small ones instead of 1 or 2 large ones to minimize the risk of trying to lock onto an area with a scratch.

From official FIRST forums:

FIRST expects the HDPE surface to become marked and soiled. The platform will be cleaned occasionally. The frequency of cleaning will depend on the amount of soiling and the time schedule of the matches. There is no guarantee that the platform surface will be clean for every match.

<Edit>

Also found this

We will try our best to maintain the condition of the HDPE. There is no schedule for replacement. There is no means for repair. We can keep it somewhat clean. Expect wear and tear. Do not expect a perfect surface for suction cup attachment. There is a seam in the HDPE at mid-platform. Because of the time required to change the HDPE, its condition will be evaluated at mid-day breaks. Spare HDPE sheets will be on site at each competition. The HDPE can be flipped to gain a new surface. We will not be able to determine the the amount of wear and tear that the HDPE will receive until we experience its use in the first week of competition. Do not expect perfect conditions for each match.

[Austin]

Suction Cups slide - maybe you haven't been informed, but there are some suction cups out there that are completly immovable, as far as you know the KATS have one on each arm

look here....Gope: 10:02pm

[soezgg]

im liking the idea of suction cups even more at every moment

45's suction cups are sweet. meant for load paralell to the attaching surface, they should hold very well.

[Katy]

wouldn't it really be from what kind of suction cup you used? If the suction cups had a very large edge to them, spare material they might hold. Think like a dinner plate, the indented area being the suction cup. There is a wide lip around the whole thing, now if that was wide enough, say maybe 3 inches of just extra material where it met the floor it could probably compensate for short 2 inch marks because the extra material would completely cover all the short ones that got under it at all and those that started midway wouldn't have access to the vacuum inside. Our team did not have an opportunity to make an entire ramp top to see how long the usual marks are or how deep they are but I'm guessing they might be deep but short meaning that might be a solution. Dust might be a problem but I don't think many robots will be dumping chain grease everywhere for the simple reason that they would work hard to fix that for the safety of their own electronics panel if nothing else. Any team that didn't wouldn't be playing many matches in which they got on the ramp anyway.

I completely admit this is all in the wonderful world of logic which often has nothing to do with the real world, please tell me how far from reality any of it has gone in your experience.

[Gusman1188]

that is a pic. of my teams suction cups and there are two 300 pound suction cups, totaling a 600 lb vacuum. Dont believe me? No robot in two regionals could move us and robots actually bounced off our bot, in fact there so effective that in order to get the robot up at the end, we have to depressurize our pnuematics.

[Lisa Rodriguez]

Only FIRST sparks so much discussion about suction cups

[pras870]

If anyone cares, I must point out, that suction cups is what won the regional at SBPLI, 2 out of the 3 teams used them, ourselves and one of our alliance partners. We would simply go to the top of the ramp, suction down, not be moved, and theres 50 points right there, kinda hard to come back with 1 bot and no multipliers

[philipprogramer]

I might point out that the only way the suction cups will work is like OneAngryDaisy said you have to make it to the top of the ramp to suction down. In the Florida Regionals we were up against a team with good suction cups but we wouldn't let them get up to the ramp.

[Pin Man]

Awesome... I can't wait to see them in action...

[Pin Man]

Awesome... I can't wait to see them in action...

[Pin Man]

Awesome... I can't wait to see them in action...