Any help with programming?

[xXhunter47Xx]

Labview is extremely easy to get started in, and there's lots of FRC-specific documentation available to help you, such as Team 358's website.

However, it's much more desirable to use Eclipse this year because of the majority of teams are using C++/Java and you'll have a lot more peer to peer help as well as mentor help.

[Ether]

Originally Posted by xXhunter47Xx

the majority of teams are using C++/Java

Is this true?

[Greg McKaskle]

Several years ago, WPILib was instrumented to help keep track of how teams were programming their robots. This data influenced the I/O numbers in the RFP from FIRST for the new control system. It also gave accurate measures of language usage and other feature usage.

Due to field configuration issues, this data was not captured last year.

The last time it was measured, in 2013, I believe a little over 50% of the teams used LV and Java was more common than C++. The only data collected last year was self-reported at events running the support site. My estimate was that last year, no language was over 50%. Java grew, LabVIEW shrank a bit and C++ shrank quite a bit.

So was the statement true for 2014? Truly, nobody knows. Will it be true for 2015? Time will tell. I can tell you in a few months, but not now.

As for the original post. You have support from CD with any tool you pick. Personally, just compiling last year's code is not taking advantage of the opportunity that FRC is offering the students on the team. You should understand the code and mechanisms on your robot regardless of the tool or language you pick. If you are like most programming teams, you probably have about a week longer to explore your options, make a decision, and fully commit yourself to learning the tool, libraries, and sample code. Personally, I'd put the deadline at the end of the week at the school week.

Greg McKaskle

[MrTechCenter]

If you do decide to switch to LabView you can shoot me a PM if you ever need help. I've been using it for several years.

[mshafer1]

My team (originally 3288) actually switched from c++ to LabVIEW a few years ago and that original team and the one I mentor now (3937) have found LabVIEW to be much easier. (I've also been certified as an associate develepor)
If you make the switch, and you can't find something in the documentation, shoot me an email at mshafer1@harding.edu and I'll try to help you out.

[MrRoboSteve]

Minnesota based teams are pretty evenly divided 1/3-1/3-1/3 between LabView and the curly brace languages.

That said, we've had trouble getting adequate LabView help at the MN regionals for teams.

Does anyone on your team know anyone at one of the companies listed at the link below? They might be a good source for help.

http://business.visitdetroitlakes.co...mmunications-6

[Alan Anderson]

I've been a CSA at several competition events, and I try to keep track of what languages are being used. The first couple of years with the cRIO, they seemed about evenly spread, with Java trailing by a small amount. In the next few years, on average, LabVIEW and Java were each represented near 40%, with C++ teams making up the remaining 20%. Recently, Java seems to be increasing in popularity, at the expense of both of the other languages.

My impression is that C++ is much more popular among the "elite/powerhouse" teams. LabVIEW tends to be the language of choice for teams lacking either strong programming mentorship or school computer science courses. Java is used in Project Lead The Way, and that's what I think is driving its increased adoption.

For the kind of group programming we end up doing on the TechnoKats, I prefer LabVIEW. I find that it's much easier for people to get a sense for what the code is doing when they can "see" it instead of having to "read" it. The inherent parallel processing makes it less complicated to keep things modular, and there's a big win in keeping simple typographical errors from being an issue.

The comprehensive example code and tutorials included with LabVIEW for FRC are also a big factor in making it the programming environment I would suggest for a team without an experienced C++ or Java mentor.

[MamaSpoldi]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I've been a CSA at several competition events, and I try to keep track of what languages are being used. The first couple of years with the cRIO, they seemed about evenly spread, with Java trailing by a small amount. In the next few years, on average, LabVIEW and Java were each represented near 40%, with C++ teams making up the remaining 20%. Recently, Java seems to be increasing in popularity, at the expense of both of the other languages.

My impression is that C++ is much more popular among the "elite/powerhouse" teams. LabVIEW tends to be the language of choice for teams lacking either strong programming mentorship or school computer science courses. Java is used in Project Lead The Way, and that's what I think is driving its increased adoption.

For the kind of group programming we end up doing on the TechnoKats, I prefer LabVIEW. I find that it's much easier for people to get a sense for what the code is doing when they can "see" it instead of having to "read" it. The inherent parallel processing makes it less complicated to keep things modular, and there's a big win in keeping simple typographical errors from being an issue.

The comprehensive example code and tutorials included with LabVIEW for FRC are also a big factor in making it the programming environment I would suggest for a team without an experienced C++ or Java mentor.

Alan - Thanks for your insight on this topic. This is a great description of the who and why of FRC programming languages.

[hhoover]

I would also suggest looking closely before shifting from where your experience lies. If you have anyone on the team that has any understanding of previous year's code, then I would suggest staying with C++. If you don't, then you basically have a rookie programming team and you need to look to them to pick the language because they'll have to do the work.
From my perspective - although >I< really dislike LabView - I have found that the kids seem to pick it up fairly well, and the online tutorials, etc. are good enough. Without a strong mentor and / or capable kids, any elaborate programming is out of the question, but drive train + basic control of specialty devices should be possible with at least one or two dedicated students.

[Awesomegamer235]

i honestly dont like the new labveiw so if your using c++ dont switch

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by Awesomegamer235

i honestly dont like the new labveiw so if your using c++ dont switch

Can you expand on that? Why don't you like new LabView? What is different about it?

(Note: I've only touched Labview once, in 2010, so I have no idea if it is different this year).

[xXhunter47Xx]

Originally Posted by Ether

Is this true?

Sorry, the majority of teams at my local competition used C++/Java. Of course YMMV but that's just what I've observed.