PROTRUSIONS QUESTION

[Mr V]

On Team [REDACTED]'s robot the fork lift arms do come off. You can see one of them being removed when it gets a mock inspection here. http://wp.me/p5y54b-21

As far as how the transport dimensions will be checked/inforced this season I wish I could give an answer but I was not able to attend LRI training this season so I have to wait until all of the documents are posted. In the mean time maybe Big Al or one of the LRI's who attended training can answer that question.

[cglrcng]

Hmmm, all that required ballast wt. strapped into the rear (I saw why earlier in the Ri3D done test vid), but you may just want to use some of that avail. ballast wt. to create a metal or wooden cover of some kind to go over that plastic air tank....I can just see a Tote stack falling from 60+ inches high, onto a fully charged tank, and the explosive power there would not be very pretty if that tank was somehow ruptured.

Personally...added frame boxing in the rear and a top over those precious electronics sure couldn't/wouldn't hurt much either. (I know, just 3 sleepless days from release to completion is really tough)...You are, storing those gripper extensions somewhere inside the Robot during transport configuration right? I missed them putting them inside the 24"X48"X78" Transport config., before the Robot Inspector measured everything up). Great job overall Team REDACTED. "If it stacks, and drives, it surely plays!"
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RE: Protusions

All everyone has to figure out is how to store whatever protusions that will be outside that 24"X48"X78" in game mode, into the 24X46X78 transport config. cube or box (it does not have to fold up, you can also remove pcs., and as long as all can be installed, and removed with hand tools (including battery operated hand tools), in 1 minute or less total, both right before and after a match "ON THE FIELD ONLY" (1 min. once placed on the field, 1 minute before going off the field), -there are gates to enter & exit the field. Reminder that includes when going to/from "ALL PRACTICE FIELDS TOO."

Then, figure out how to store all those things somehow inside those dimensions internally, or externally on the robot on hooks, shelves, or whatever. (If your robot is already 23 7/8" X 47 7/8" X 67 7/8" then you better be storing all removed pcs. inside the bot during transport mode)...Just not in human hands walking beside the robot, as that would usually be outside that cube/box dimensions. (It will help you not forget pcs. in the pits that way also, if you ALWAYS attach those pcs. to your robot).

That nifty super duper 6 Tote stacking elevator you designed, simply won't work very well if those fork extensions are left in the pits. But, if hanging right there on the back of the elevator on hooks or better yet..."Remove before Flight" red flagged push type release pins inserted through the pcs into correctly sized drilled holes...You'll know right where to find them, when you really need em'.
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They will, according to a Q&A already, be warning those that violate the Transport Config. Rule, between pit and field's (including in Queing), and may if repeated instances of warnings or serious violations, Yellow or Red card repeated or serious offenders.

So, simply figure it out during the build & before bagging please. We all depend on each of us doing so. (You get carded, we all get aftected too). Everyone needs to help remind each other in this no W-L-T average QA points era.

I'm sure while fully in your 10' X10' pit box, you can put it back into match mode (as long as you keep it out of the aisles and safe for all concerned). I can also imagine that some won't actually be able to even do that either, if they go really overboard, due to no ON FIELD Width X Length LIMITATIONS, and anything but the 78" Height Maximum Limit.

Just dont forget, from your pit area to Competition or Practice FIELD's....(Includes everywhere else at the event, including the Queing areas)....Transport mode only. (Of course that would also exclude Inspection, IF requested, to go to "Field Play Mode", then back to Transport Config. Mode).

On the 2 (or more), fields, and in your pit box, Play Mode config. is OK...For many to most! (That, we'll see, and remains to be seen).

I just can't wait to see that 1 or more -78" high X bookuu wide & long "sky crane," that asks if they can encroach the airspace of at least 3 or more pit spaces, so they can just test or repair something real quick, and it opens horizontally from folding like an easy up shelter!

Q&A said, The TRANSPORT Configuration checker method, is still TBA.

But like he said above...What we say here isn't OFFICIAL...Read the RULES, check the UPDATES often, & check the Q&A often, then use the Q&A to ask questions, if the answers are not already found there or you do not understand something.

[Mr_D_Mentor]

How about small protrusions like bolt heads etc. that have been allowed in the past. I don't see the exception in the rules this year.

Unless I'm missing something, this means that if we use the kit frame then we have to cut the front and back rails about 1" smaller than 28" to get the axle bolt heads inside the envelope. (for narrow configuration).

[Jon Stratis]

You are correct, there are no exemptions for bolt heads and the like this year.

As guidance, previously, when we had similar width/length limits for the robot those were absolute limits. The robot had to fit in a rigid sizing box, and a bolt sticking over could be enough to keep you out of the box. Back then, it was common guidance to build 1" under in every dimension to ensure you would fit in the box.

The question is, how will this be treated this year? Personally, I would err on the side of caution and build my robot a little undersized. That way you will be guaranteed not to have an issue. And if you do have a bolt head sticking out just a little too far? I find prayer and a chocolate covered gift to the inspector* does wonders


*bribes don't actually work. I would personally accept the chocolate, eat it, then send Al over to perform the inspection

[magnets]

I predict there will be many teams who show up with a kitbot with the bolt heads sticking out this year. FIRST may want to consider a blog post/Update that covers this issue, as I know I'd be really sad if I were a rookie team having to cut up my robot when I got to the competition.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by magnets

I predict there will be many teams who show up with a kitbot with the bolt heads sticking out this year. FIRST may want to consider a blog post/Update that covers this issue, as I know I'd be really sad if I were a rookie team having to cut up my robot when I got to the competition.

Perhaps having to do that will teach them to read the rules next time, eh? Hard lesson, but effective.

As Jon stated (as per Q&A) there are not exceptions for bolt heads and the like.

My advice to teams is to build to 27 x 41 x 77. Will an extra inch really make the robot work any better??

[asid61]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Perhaps having to do that will teach them to read the rules next time, eh? Hard lesson, but effective.

As Jon stated (as per Q&A) there are not exceptions for bolt heads and the like.

My advice to teams is to build to 27 x 41 x 77. Will an extra inch really make the robot work any better??

You would be surprised how much an extra inch would have helped us this year. One more inch would have made a pretty drastic change in our robot.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by magnets

I predict there will be many teams who show up with a kitbot with the bolt heads sticking out this year. FIRST may want to consider a blog post/Update that covers this issue, as I know I'd be really sad if I were a rookie team having to cut up my robot when I got to the competition.

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Perhaps having to do that will teach them to read the rules next time, eh? Hard lesson, but effective.

As Jon stated (as per Q&A) there are not exceptions for bolt heads and the like.

The first year of the frame perimeter rule, a team showed up with a 38x28 robot. They couldn't compete, because they couldn't reconfigure it within the timeframe of the competition.

To the team's credit, when it was determined hopeless, they helped other teams with lesser problems.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

The first year of the frame perimeter rule, a team showed up with a 38x28 robot. They couldn't compete, because they couldn't reconfigure it within the timeframe of the competition.

To the team's credit, when it was determined hopeless, they helped other teams with lesser problems.

I had two of those, one at each of the events I was LRI. Was caught them quick, have them dedicated inspector help, and managed to get them in the field that weekend. It was very tough, and they did little more than drive around, but it was a valuable learning experience for them!

[kmusa]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I find prayer and a chocolate covered gift to the inspector* does wonders


*bribes don't actually work. I would personally accept the chocolate, eat it, then send Al over to perform the inspection

So how does Al feel about chocolate?

[gpetilli]

Please keep in mind that the transport dimensions are absolute - unlike recent years which were a somewhat subjective perimeter. The allowance for bolt heads has specifically been ruled out (they do count towards the size limit). In the years before the switch to a perimeter rule, they had an inspection box that the robot had to fit in - bolts and all. It was an unbiased pass/fail test. I have seen teams grinding welds and replacing bolts with rivets to get that last 0.1 inch off so that they fit into the box.

Please design your robot to be at least 0.5in smaller than the transport limits to allow for tolerance of assembly and the inspection box.

[dtengineering]

I'd encourage FIRST to consider a scaled up version of the laser sizing box I built for use at our VEX tournaments.

It is brutally effective... and quick. http://www.vexforum.com/showthread.p...t=laser+sizing

But more likely there will be a more traditional sizing box.

Jason

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

I'd encourage FIRST to consider a scaled up version of the laser sizing box I built for use at our VEX tournaments.

It is brutally effective... and quick. http://www.vexforum.com/showthread.p...t=laser+sizing

But more likely there will be a more traditional sizing box.

Jason

When I read "laser sizing box", I imagined a machine that uses lasers to shave off any offending bits of the robot.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

I'd encourage FIRST to consider a scaled up version of the laser sizing box I built for use at our VEX tournaments.

It is brutally effective... and quick. http://www.vexforum.com/showthread.p...t=laser+sizing

But more likely there will be a more traditional sizing box.

Jason

The current official ruling on how the footprint portion of the sizing will be checked is with a tape outline on the floor. The height will be checked with a tape measure. I can see a plumb bob being used in the case of robots that are in a "mushroom" shape in the transport configuration.