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Unread 15-01-2015, 14:11
MrJohnston MrJohnston is offline
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Re: Stacking vs Capping vs ???

One thing that makes this game interesting is that you are going to have to approach the game a little differently each match, depending on the capabilities of your allies. The real trick is for alliances to figure out how to maximize points and not overlapping abilities.

It will be important to figure out which robot/s can quickly stack totes and bins at the feeder station so that the third can claim the recycling containers on the step. Or, better, if a single robot is able to make three stacks at the feeder station (with recycling containers, of course!), it would make sense to send both of the other two to the step immediately - even if they are able to, as individual bots, stack more quickly from the feeder.

How many points should the alliance try to score during autonomous? It might be worthwhile for an alliance to forfeit some autonomous points so as to get a jump on the recycling bins on the step... This might depend not just on your alliance, but on the capabilities of the opposing alliance..

Is the other alliance capable of participating in coopertition? If so, will it be worth the effort to do it? Etc.

I just see so many variables that I do not believe that any full strategy can be worked out before truly sitting down and assessing the capabilities of all the robots on the field... I also think we will see a lot of math being done as robots are waiting in line to get onto the field...
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Unread 15-01-2015, 12:51
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Re: Stacking vs Capping vs ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird View Post
If you go for the bin first without having a stack you either need to put it down and wait for a stack or move to the staging platform and hope there is a stack there. Both options waste time. In a management match you want the cycles tight, unnecesary movement is wasting time wasted time is lost score.
Got the comment its kinda like cooking
"Yo I opened the cookie dough!"
"Dude were in the sick ward of a hospital and we don't have an oven..."
One more thing to consider this year is the fact that ranking isn't defined by the W-L-T system like we are normally use to it is about scoring the most points or keeping your opponents from scoring points. If you can get the 4 recycle containers off of the middle step onto your teams side you prevent them from scoring those points and limiting their potential max score and hopefully lowering their match score average. I don't think this is necessarily the best strategy but just some food for thought. Also the longer you wait to grab the stuff on the step the less likely it is to be there when you want to use it.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 12:53
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Re: Stacking vs Capping vs ???

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Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird View Post
If you go for the bin first without having a stack you either need to put it down and wait for a stack or move to the staging platform and hope there is a stack there. Both options waste time. In a management match you want the cycles tight, unnecesary movement is wasting time wasted time is lost score.
Got the comment its kinda like cooking
"Yo I opened the cookie dough!"
"Dude were in the sick ward of a hospital and we don't have an oven..."
Or you design the robot to build a stack under a container. No need to put it down.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 13:44
MrRoe MrRoe is offline
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Re: Stacking vs Capping vs ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe View Post
Or you design the robot to build a stack under a container. No need to put it down.
Seems to me this is the most understated strategy. There is no need to raise to over 6' if you start building a STACK by bottom stacking with a CONTAINER already on the first TOTE. The practicality of this strategy may change in competition, but it seems that most of the Ri3D didn't have too much trouble.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 13:51
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Re: Stacking vs Capping vs ???

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Originally Posted by MrRoe View Post
Seems to me this is the most understated strategy. There is no need to raise to over 6' if you start building a STACK by bottom stacking with a CONTAINER already on the first TOTE. The practicality of this strategy may change in competition, but it seems that most of the Ri3D didn't have too much trouble.
I totally agree but I think this will only be preferable during qualifications when you might need to complete an entire stack by yourself. Once you have a set alliance in elims I think it will be quicker for 1-2 robots to only focus on stacking totes and have the third robot worry about lifting bins.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 14:04
Canon reeves Canon reeves is offline
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Re: Stacking vs Capping vs ???

Looking at this from an eliminations standpoint, only two robots should need the feeder station at any given time with maybe one overlap. If you have one robot stacking stacks of three or four on the ramp, one robot collecting recycle containers and placing them on the three high stacks, and one robot stacking a three high with a container onto another three high. Your quickest stacker does the stacks of three, your best manipulator does the final stacking, and the last robot does as many containers as you can. Three unique roles. Although they are lifting just the same for the totes, it is different enough to that at any median level regional atleast two of the roles wouldn't be interchangable, of course this would change at champs, but for the most part there are three independent roles, and that's with ignoring the noodles.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 14:02
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Re: Stacking vs Capping vs ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoe View Post
Seems to me this is the most understated strategy. There is no need to raise to over 6' if you start building a STACK by bottom stacking with a CONTAINER already on the first TOTE. The practicality of this strategy may change in competition, but it seems that most of the Ri3D didn't have too much trouble.
While all of the Ri3D teams built stacks using this method, it might be important to note that none of them did it very quickly. Teams rarely win FIRST events because they can complete actions that nobody else can; they win because they do things faster than others.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 12:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesbass23 View Post
Unless your robot is designed to efficiently move bins and fill them with litter. Then by the time a stack or two is ready, you'll be ready with a couple noodle filled bins.
I can see that but having a robot built for bins and noodles is low scoring due to the fact that you need to put it on one tote. A noodle and a bin on nothing is worth nothing and I dunno if it counts as unproccessed litter now that I think about it...
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Unread 15-01-2015, 12:50
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Re: Stacking vs Capping vs ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird View Post
I can see that but having a robot built for bins and noodles is low scoring due to the fact that you need to put it on one tote. A noodle and a bin on nothing is worth nothing and I dunno if it counts as unproccessed litter now that I think about it...
I guarantee you there will be at least one robot that has a failed tote manipulator and must rely on capping stacks. yes this puts pressure on the other two robots on the alliance to be able move totes but chances are pretty good that at least 1 of the 3 robots on an alliance can create stacks. That is part of the challenge of FRC, how do you design your robot to succeed without relying too much on your partners? To succeed in qualifications you usually need to be able to do everything in case your partners don't show up for a match. But once you reach eliminations you tend to get picked on your skill in one particular area.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 12:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesbass23 View Post
I guarantee you there will be at least one robot that has a failed tote manipulator and must rely on capping stacks. yes this puts pressure on the other two robots on the alliance to be able move totes but chances are pretty good that at least 1 of the 3 robots on an alliance can create stacks. That is part of the challenge of FRC, how do you design your robot to succeed without relying too much on your partners? To succeed in qualifications you usually need to be able to do everything in case your partners don't show up for a match. But once you reach eliminations you tend to get picked on your skill in one particular area.
I agree completely I just find it hard to believe the only areas I came up with for scoring are stacking and capping.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 12:57
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Re: Stacking vs Capping vs ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird View Post
I agree completely I just find it hard to believe the only areas I came up with for scoring are stacking and capping.
2014 had a pretty good variety but catching was rare
2013 was disks and climbing
2012 was baskets and balancing
2011 was tubes and minibots

This year we have totes, bins and noodles that are worth different amounts in different arrangements. If the GDC had given us another way to score (different game piece or end game) then the game would get too complicated.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 12:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlybird View Post
One more thing to consider this year is the fact that ranking isn't defined by the W-L-T system like we are normally use to it is about scoring the most points or keeping your opponents from scoring points. If you can get the 4 recycle containers off of the middle step onto your teams side you prevent them from scoring those points and limiting their potential max score and hopefully lowering their match score average. I don't think this is necessarily the best strategy but just some food for thought. Also the longer you wait to grab the stuff on the step the less likely it is to be there when you want to use it.
Yeah the counterplay for this year is so bizzare. Denyijng potential is kind of cool but not really the most engaging thing or even helpful except at high levels where bins will be used. But the noodles? No offense and maximum respect to GDC but the risk reward of noodles seems a little off balance...
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Unread 15-01-2015, 13:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesbass23 View Post
2014 had a pretty good variety but catching was rare
2013 was disks and climbing
2012 was baskets and balancing
2011 was tubes and minibots

This year we have totes, bins and noodles that are worth different amounts in different arrangements. If the GDC had given us another way to score (different game piece or end game) then the game would get too complicated.
I feel like they accidentally created endgame with pool noodles to be completely honest the time taken for driving landfill vs putting noodles in bins. Need to do the maths though.

Anyway what I am hearing is there is stacking and capping. Correct me if I'm wrong of course
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Last edited by IronicDeadBird : 15-01-2015 at 13:02.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 13:05
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Re: Stacking vs Capping vs ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird View Post
I feel like they accidentally created endgame with pool noodles to be completely honest the time taken for driving landfill vs putting noodles in bins. Need to do the maths though
A noodle in a bin is worth the same 6 in the landfill or 3 stacked totes. Depending on an alliances capabilities it might make more sense to move 6 noodles into the landfill or stack 3 totes. But a noodle in a bin on top of a stack is the most effective use of the noodle.
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Unread 15-01-2015, 13:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesbass23 View Post
A noodle in a bin is worth the same 6 in the landfill or 3 stacked totes. Depending on an alliances capabilities it might make more sense to move 6 noodles into the landfill or stack 3 totes. But a noodle in a bin on top of a stack is the most effective use of the noodle.
That's assuming all actions take equal amounts of time.
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