Stacking vs Capping vs ???

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by wesbass23

Unless your robot is designed to efficiently move bins and fill them with litter. Then by the time a stack or two is ready, you'll be ready with a couple noodle filled bins.

I can see that but having a robot built for bins and noodles is low scoring due to the fact that you need to put it on one tote. A noodle and a bin on nothing is worth nothing and I dunno if it counts as unproccessed litter now that I think about it...

[wesbass23]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

I can see that but having a robot built for bins and noodles is low scoring due to the fact that you need to put it on one tote. A noodle and a bin on nothing is worth nothing and I dunno if it counts as unproccessed litter now that I think about it...

I guarantee you there will be at least one robot that has a failed tote manipulator and must rely on capping stacks. yes this puts pressure on the other two robots on the alliance to be able move totes but chances are pretty good that at least 1 of the 3 robots on an alliance can create stacks. That is part of the challenge of FRC, how do you design your robot to succeed without relying too much on your partners? To succeed in qualifications you usually need to be able to do everything in case your partners don't show up for a match. But once you reach eliminations you tend to get picked on your skill in one particular area.

[earlybird]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

If you go for the bin first without having a stack you either need to put it down and wait for a stack or move to the staging platform and hope there is a stack there. Both options waste time. In a management match you want the cycles tight, unnecesary movement is wasting time wasted time is lost score.
Got the comment its kinda like cooking
"Yo I opened the cookie dough!"
"Dude were in the sick ward of a hospital and we don't have an oven..."

One more thing to consider this year is the fact that ranking isn't defined by the W-L-T system like we are normally use to it is about scoring the most points or keeping your opponents from scoring points. If you can get the 4 recycle containers off of the middle step onto your teams side you prevent them from scoring those points and limiting their potential max score and hopefully lowering their match score average. I don't think this is necessarily the best strategy but just some food for thought. Also the longer you wait to grab the stuff on the step the less likely it is to be there when you want to use it.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by wesbass23

I guarantee you there will be at least one robot that has a failed tote manipulator and must rely on capping stacks. yes this puts pressure on the other two robots on the alliance to be able move totes but chances are pretty good that at least 1 of the 3 robots on an alliance can create stacks. That is part of the challenge of FRC, how do you design your robot to succeed without relying too much on your partners? To succeed in qualifications you usually need to be able to do everything in case your partners don't show up for a match. But once you reach eliminations you tend to get picked on your skill in one particular area.

I agree completely I just find it hard to believe the only areas I came up with for scoring are stacking and capping.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

If you go for the bin first without having a stack you either need to put it down and wait for a stack or move to the staging platform and hope there is a stack there. Both options waste time. In a management match you want the cycles tight, unnecesary movement is wasting time wasted time is lost score.
Got the comment its kinda like cooking
"Yo I opened the cookie dough!"
"Dude were in the sick ward of a hospital and we don't have an oven..."

Or you design the robot to build a stack under a container. No need to put it down.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by earlybird

One more thing to consider this year is the fact that ranking isn't defined by the W-L-T system like we are normally use to it is about scoring the most points or keeping your opponents from scoring points. If you can get the 4 recycle containers off of the middle step onto your teams side you prevent them from scoring those points and limiting their potential max score and hopefully lowering their match score average. I don't think this is necessarily the best strategy but just some food for thought. Also the longer you wait to grab the stuff on the step the less likely it is to be there when you want to use it.

Yeah the counterplay for this year is so bizzare. Denyijng potential is kind of cool but not really the most engaging thing or even helpful except at high levels where bins will be used. But the noodles? No offense and maximum respect to GDC but the risk reward of noodles seems a little off balance...

[wesbass23]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

I agree completely I just find it hard to believe the only areas I came up with for scoring are stacking and capping.

2014 had a pretty good variety but catching was rare
2013 was disks and climbing
2012 was baskets and balancing
2011 was tubes and minibots

This year we have totes, bins and noodles that are worth different amounts in different arrangements. If the GDC had given us another way to score (different game piece or end game) then the game would get too complicated.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by wesbass23

2014 had a pretty good variety but catching was rare
2013 was disks and climbing
2012 was baskets and balancing
2011 was tubes and minibots

This year we have totes, bins and noodles that are worth different amounts in different arrangements. If the GDC had given us another way to score (different game piece or end game) then the game would get too complicated.

I feel like they accidentally created endgame with pool noodles to be completely honest the time taken for driving landfill vs putting noodles in bins. Need to do the maths though.

Anyway what I am hearing is there is stacking and capping. Correct me if I'm wrong of course

[wesbass23]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

I feel like they accidentally created endgame with pool noodles to be completely honest the time taken for driving landfill vs putting noodles in bins. Need to do the maths though

A noodle in a bin is worth the same 6 in the landfill or 3 stacked totes. Depending on an alliances capabilities it might make more sense to move 6 noodles into the landfill or stack 3 totes. But a noodle in a bin on top of a stack is the most effective use of the noodle.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by wesbass23

A noodle in a bin is worth the same 6 in the landfill or 3 stacked totes. Depending on an alliances capabilities it might make more sense to move 6 noodles into the landfill or stack 3 totes. But a noodle in a bin on top of a stack is the most effective use of the noodle.

That's assuming all actions take equal amounts of time.

[wesbass23]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

That's assuming all actions take equal amounts of time.

Well like I said it depends on an alliances capabilities but looking strictly at the points awarded to number of game pieces used the noodle in the bin is the best way to go. Especially since the highest level of play will see noodles in stacked bins. However if there is 5 seconds left in the match and you have no chance of getting in a noodle in a bin, by all means get the noodle on the other side of the field or get it in the landfill.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

Two scoring platforms
Two feeder stations
Two mid piles
Am I just crazier then I thought? Does this not add up to anyone else?

It all adds up for me. There are so many ways to build a robot this year, and some variety in how to get game pieces. We are planning to be able to do the "hard stuff", on our own, to maximize our alliance score. Assuming that our alliance partners will likely need both feeder stations for at least some of our matches, we plan to mainly get totes from the landfill, and make medium stacks with them. Then be able to cap our stacks, and stacks that our partners make, as well. The scoring platforms are relatively long, hopefully we'll not run out of room on them for stacks, but even if we do, it's a nice problem to have, it means you're racking up the points.

[MrRoe]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Or you design the robot to build a stack under a container. No need to put it down.

Seems to me this is the most understated strategy. There is no need to raise to over 6' if you start building a STACK by bottom stacking with a CONTAINER already on the first TOTE. The practicality of this strategy may change in competition, but it seems that most of the Ri3D didn't have too much trouble.

[wesbass23]

Originally Posted by MrRoe

Seems to me this is the most understated strategy. There is no need to raise to over 6' if you start building a STACK by bottom stacking with a CONTAINER already on the first TOTE. The practicality of this strategy may change in competition, but it seems that most of the Ri3D didn't have too much trouble.

I totally agree but I think this will only be preferable during qualifications when you might need to complete an entire stack by yourself. Once you have a set alliance in elims I think it will be quicker for 1-2 robots to only focus on stacking totes and have the third robot worry about lifting bins.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by MrRoe

Seems to me this is the most understated strategy. There is no need to raise to over 6' if you start building a STACK by bottom stacking with a CONTAINER already on the first TOTE. The practicality of this strategy may change in competition, but it seems that most of the Ri3D didn't have too much trouble.

While all of the Ri3D teams built stacks using this method, it might be important to note that none of them did it very quickly. Teams rarely win FIRST events because they can complete actions that nobody else can; they win because they do things faster than others.