Overbearing Parents

[DavidtheKing]

This is a serious thread, please no jokes or wise cracks.

So I've been with my FIRST team for three years now, and it's been an amazing experience so far. As I've made the progression from a freshman to a junior, I've become more and more involved with team. Last year, our team was able to use our mill and lathe for the first time, and I was among the first people on our team to learn to use these tools and be able to fabricate homemade parts for the robot, which helped tremendously with cost and time. At the end of that season, I began to learn complex CAD and worked on several important projects during this years preseason, such as prototyping a butterfly drivetrain and an instrumented drive system. So far this season, I have been very involved the actual robot design and actually helped to design an entire subsystem on the robot. Unfortunately, most of our seniors are graduating this year which means next season I will literally be the only veteran team member who is experienced in the mechanical department (bring it on). This one of the few things in life so far that I've actually been internally motivated to do (besides video games and few sports lol), and it’s helped me think about my career choices and decide what I want to do in the future. And on the way I've met so many great people who have shared their knowledge and mentored me along the way.

So what does all this have to do with the title?

All this time, I have lacked one key thing: parental support. My parents are immigrant Asians from China, and unfortunately are the hardheaded kind. Through all of my time in robotics, they have called it a waste of time and have gone as far as restricting my meeting times and how long I can stay at some meetings. They also scold me when I spend “too much time” working on the robot. They think that having to stay after school for 6 hours 4 days a week building a robot will ruin my chances of getting into college because it will cause my grades to drop from all A's and one B to all A's and two B's (with four weighted classes). This was actually their reason for being so harsh about robotics last year. My mom has had a better attitude about robotics in the last few months since she learned more about it, but it's not much better. (2 days ago she scolded me for playing video games when I wasn't supposed to because I was designing something in CAD and she thought it was a video game. -__-) If I ask my dad why he makes me skip some of the meetings, he starts talking about how this is a waste of time and because I don’t have any special talents I need to focus on getting a 36 on the ACT and getting all A’s in school.

Now before everyone starts bashing my parents because they hate robotics, you have to understand their viewpoint. In China, the education system is very exam-oriented and score-based, and has been for the last 50 or so years. At the end of high school, every high school student takes an entrance exam called the Gao Kao (高考). This is basically an all or nothing test. If you don’t get into a certain percentile you don’t go to college. Period. And if you don’t go to college, you’re basically doomed to work in a sweatshop or in manual labor making $2 a day for the rest of your life. It is a horrible system. Students from rich families will often secretly bribe teachers to change their scores, and this type of corruption carries over to other institutions, from the government to college to even driving tests to earn a driver’s license (this is probably where the stereotype that Asians are bad drivers comes from). The other students basically devote their lives into turning themselves into test-taking robots in order to pass this rigorous exam. And this is the system that my parents struggled through, with a violent communist revolution happening on top of everything. And this is where that 36 on the ACT and straight A's with nothing else thing comes in. It's how they see education. And you can't really blame them for it.

Unfortunately, my parents have also refused to listen to anything I say or argue to them, and this also kind of extends from a cultural perspective. This is where the real problem lies. I will try to explain to them why robotics takes so much time and why it is worth it. My mom will listen but doesn’t really say anything, and my dad will flat out interrupt me and tell me that I’m not in position to argue. Both of them will then usually launch into a lecture about grades again. My dad also complains sometimes about having to give me rides. I swear, getting something to go into my dad's head is like trying to cut a steel hex shaft with a wood blade. So the final question is, how do I get my dad to listen to me and to appreciate my experience in robotics, and in turn stop imposing these restrictions? One of my team mentors has offered to talk to him for me but my dad has already made it clear that he is not hearing any of it and has said not to give his contact information to anyone on robotics. My mom just kind of goes with what my dad says, which makes it hard for her to hear me out as well. How can I get my parents to stop being such jerks to me about robotics?

[EricH]

Tell them about the SCHOLARSHIPS (including FULL-RIDE scholarships) available through FIRST. Tell them that if you get pulled out of robotics, you miss out on those. Trying to remember how many million$ are available, but it's a pretty large amount all told. At top engineering schools. (And other schools, but that's beside the point.)

Oh, and what other afterschool activity can land you INTERNSHIPS? Internships that open the door to JOBS that pay a lot.

And how could I forget the NETWORKs you build, not in hardware and software, but with other people? People that are currently, or will in the future be, in hiring positions for those engineering jobs.


And one final suggestion: Ask them, politely, if they would be willing to attend one day of your regional competition, and talk to various people throughout the event. Particularly any companies or colleges attending...


But if I was you, I'd talk about the scholarships, and the connections to the schools that develop.

[Team3266Spencer]

"If you can dream it, then you can achieve it. You will get all you want in life if you help enough other people get what they want."
-Zig Ziglar

"If you're trying to achieve, there will be roadblocks. I've had them; everybody has had them. But obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it."
-Michael Jordan

Fight for your independence but remember nothing is more important than family.

I can't say I'm a psychiatrist or that these statements are likely to be that helpful but I believe they are where my values reside on the subject.

[DavidtheKing]

Thanks for the input guys. Even though my parents have been jerks about this, I've had lots of great teammates and friends to help me through this. And even with the meeting restrictions I still get to spend a good amount of time helping build the robot and learn skills that will help me in the future.

Unfortunately, based on your responses I don't think there's any way to solve this problem without just persevering through it and disregarding my parents. Yesterday my dad was yelling at me about my ACT scores after the meeting (I got a 34, he wants me to get a 35 or 36 when I take the school given one), and how I won't ever get into a good school with a 34. I told him that pretty much the only places that won't let you in with a 34 are Ivy Leagues and that I didn't want to go to an Ivy League school. He asked my why I was like that and called me unmotivated and lazy for saying that. At this point, I'm scared to even talk to my dad about this anymore because it always turns into a one-sided yelling session. He doesn't see any credibility in what I say because in his eyes I'm a lazy, unmotivated, disappointment of a son. My best solution at the current moment is to get my mom to drag my dad to the parent open house that our team has every year. When he's there he can see what FIRST has to offer and I can also get some of the mentors and coaches to try to talk some sense into him. When my mom came to open house for the first time last year, she began to adopt a much better attitude towards robotics. However, due to the fact that China is a very patriarchal society, she kind of just sticks with what my dad says with the grades thing and the meeting restrictions. Unfortunately, my dad is about a million times more hardheaded than my mom, so I'll just have to see how this turns out.

[EricH]

The one and only suggestion I would have (regarding the Ivy League schools) is this:

You're going for ENGINEERING, not LAW (or other similar items). Ivy League schools are not known for their engineering schools, whether or not they have them. (Harvard does, but is very selective because it's very small.)

Try telling him it's probably good enough for Cal Tech or MIT, neither of which is Ivy League to my knowledge. If he doesn't recognize those, they are generally regarded as the biggest-name engineering schools in the country. (Cue angry letters from other folks making that claim.)

[Celia]

I would suggest trying to get your parents more involved - just enough to where they see what you do at robotics. You could invite them to come to a meeting so they can see everything you do and the real-world applicability. Do they come to your competitions? That would be a good way to "introduce" them to the program. Maybe the mentor that offered to help could write a letter to your parents explaining the importance of robotics and your value on the team. You wouldn't be giving out your parents' contact information, just bringing home a note.

This is a sucky position to be in, but just remember you've already lasted the majority of it. Just a season and a half left. Best of luck.

[JamesCH95]

It sounds like the issue here is that your parents truly believe that grades and exam scores are the end-all be-all of academia. While this may be true in China, it is not true in the US.

What do you think you can do to convince them of this fact?

I'm sure we, the CD community, could supply numerous anecdotes of people with less-than-perfect grades excelling in their chosen fields.

Is there something else that might help? Webcasts of various company executives talking at opening and closing ceremonies about how they love to hire FIRST participants?

[alephzer0]

This is a topic that I care a lot about, so I apologize in advance for any ranting that I may do or radical statements that I may make.
I am personally of the opinion that the right to decide the balance of activities in the life of a student lies entirely in the hands of the student. Meaning, parents can have input, but the student should make the final choice. Yes, this means I reject permission slips and parental consent forms for high schoolers in concept. I believe that if a student wants to be a part of something that is not illegal, the parents have no right to say "no."
That being said, there is only so much parents can do to restrict you. If you find a way, defy them. MLK and Ghandi did not just get their way; they showed civil disobedience, and I think that concept can be applied, to a lesser extent, to parents who try to hold you back from your dreams. There is only so far they can go to punish you before they are hurting your well-being, which parents try to avoid.
I'm not saying to not listen to anything they say. But if they try to restrict your meeting time, find another ride home; if your dad does not want you to give away his contact info to anyone at robotics, do it anyway and have them say they used the school directory.
In other words, don't let them impose unfair restrictions on you. Good luck, and I hope your parents realize that they need to let you do this.
EDIT: I realize now that permission slips have to do with liability. I still think they allow parents to impose their will upon you.
Also, read the FAQ, specifically the section that says "good and bad reasons to give negative reputation", before you attack my reputation based on the fact that you disagree with my point of view. I understand that this is radical. It doesn't mean I can't express it.

[Josh Fox]

Originally Posted by alephzer0

I am personally of the opinion that the right to decide the balance of activities in the life of a student lies entirely in the hands of the student. Meaning, parents can have input, but the student should make the final choice. Yes, this means I reject permission slips and parental consent forms for high schoolers in concept. I believe that if a student wants to be a part of something that is not illegal, the parents have no right to say "no."

I realize you have a philosophical issue with permission slips, but you have to realize it's more about liability than allowing parents to impose their will on students/their children.


To the OP, I hope you're able to continue with this season in whatever capacity you desire, but on the chance your parents decide to pull you out for whatever reasons they decide, you pretty much have to go with it. As a minor (and even myself at 23) you're incredibly dependent on your parents for any number of things and sometimes you'll have to do things you don't like to keep them happy.

And even though it wouldn't be any fun to not be able to stay involved, and even though FIRST certainly does help with getting into schools and such, you're clearly a smart person that in the long run things will work out for just fine with or without this extra year of FIRST as long as you apply yourself. I know asking you to look toward the future isn't easy (I certainly would've struggled with it a ton in your shoes), but try not to let yourself fall into thinking only about the present.

[aeastet]

One thing I hope the OP gets from all of this is that you need to listen and be a better parent than your parents are. I tell my sons all of the time that if you take what I taught you and you make it better for your kids then we are both better for it. Be a better parent than I was to you and your kids will thank you.

Your parents job is to try and help you be a better person based on what they were taught by their parents. You also need to understand that your parents are not out to get you (in most cases). They love you and want you to be successful. Your parents will judge themselves by how you turn out. If you are happy. and if you are successful in your life. Parents that were raised by very strict parents may have a closed mind on flexibility. Open communication is the only way to change that but it may not help. There is a lot of information on the FIRST web site. Print some of it off and leave it around your house. If they will not go to the mountain bring it to them. Do what you can do but ultimately you can not make your parents change their minds.

I will tell you as a professional engineer that I have hired interns for many years now and they have all come from the FIRST environment. I get to see smart, motivated students and get to "test drive" them for many years.

Freedom only comes when you can take care of yourself. When you get there you will look back and see the lessons that your parents taught you and you will understand why they did what they did even if you still do not agree with it.

Keep your head up and keep having fun. This is the most amazing program I have ever had the privilege to be a part of and I wish I would have had the chance to be part of it when I was in school (it didn't exist back then).

[ScottM]

I'm going to take a swag (guess) and say that your parents will listen to someone in a position of authority. Find out if there will be college recruiters at one of your competitions. Invite (beg?) your parents to come to the competition and talk to the recruiters.

Then remind them that people such as;

Eric Schmidt, Executive Chairman, Google, and W. James McNerney, Jr., Chairman, President and CEO, The Boeing Company, have been elected to the Board of Directors of FIRST

Good luck and persevere.

[Rangel]

It sounds like you've been a part of your team for a while now and if your parents don't understand the importance of it now, they probably never will. My advice is to keep doing what you can do be as involved with your team as much as possible. For example if your parents don't want to give you rides, find other modes such as friends or the bus. I'm a little on the side of Nathan in terms of radicalness being in a similar situation not too long ago. I don't suggest to go as far as forging permission slips but maybe stay later in robotics than your supposed to some days and stuff like that. Do what you can to make your parents happy though. Keep up with grades and schoolwork, tell them what they want to hear if you get into one sided arguments about robotics again, and give your coach contact information anyways and just say your coach got it from school system. You probably won't convince them that robotics is the best use of your time but you have a good chance of remaining active since they've allowed you to stay on this long.

[Qbot2640]

I have had several of my past team members come back and tell me that during their college interviews, when FIRST Robotics was brought up it dominated the remainder of the interview...so the nervous student undergoing this high-stakes interview suddenly gets to speak much more comfortably about a topic that they know intimately. They have told me that it made a major difference in the success of the interview. (And each one who told me this, was successfully admitted to their first choice of universities.)

[FrankJ]

This thread has a lot of revalence to this. The originator works with admissions at MIT. It also gives good advice on how to make First experience count on a college app.

[kaliken]

Originally Posted by EricH

The one and only suggestion I would have (regarding the Ivy League schools) is this:

You're going for ENGINEERING, not LAW (or other similar items). Ivy League schools are not known for their engineering schools, whether or not they have them. (Harvard does, but is very selective because it's very small.)

This is a pretty broad statement...and one that is not true. Yes the ivy league schools have better reputations for other majors however several have top engineering schools. Typically Cornell Princeton and Columbia have very good engineering schools and grad schools. E.g. Cornell is usually within the top 10 of most rankings. Couple that with very excellent physics programs and other hard sciences the ivy leagues definitely are not just for law/business majors.

For the topic at hand. My take is that you need to balance a bit more to appease your parents. You parents obviously want what is best for you. They may be misguided but they are a big part if your life. Fro better or worse. I would enjoy robotics but Work to keep your grades up and test scores up. Make sure they see you studying and working hard in what they hold as important. Understanding what makes them happy and doing those things will more likely shape their minds and possibly let you enjoy robotics time. Also remember robotics doesn't get you into college. While Robotics can really separate you from other candidates, grades/test scores may prevent you from even getting compared.
Best of luck!