Pool Noodles -- How Important?

[NH Swag]

My team has dismissed pool noodles to only being thrown by the human player. I was wondering if any teams out there were making them a major part of their strategy.

[luke683]

I know that our team is not but some others may be

[wesbass23]

While they might not be important in the early regionals or qualifications at most places. They will certainly come into play at the higher levels of play. Litter in the RC is worth up to 42 points that eventually can't be ignored.

[IronicDeadBird]

I'm wondering how much different teams will value the litter. At lower levels every point counts so not putting the litter into the landfill can be a decent hit. At higher levels if I throw a pool noodle out into a difficult to get spot how many teams will take the bait....

[pandamonium]

I plan on asking our alliance partners to not throw litter. It is way more important than I think you are assessing though. if any robot has a bucket the human player can easily place all 10 over the wall in that bucket and that alliance will automatically score 10 points if it ends the match in the landfill. This is an easy 10 points!

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

I'm wondering how much different teams will value the litter. At lower levels every point counts so not putting the litter into the landfill can be a decent hit. At higher levels if I throw a pool noodle out into a difficult to get spot how many teams will take the bait....

It'll vary by match. If a team's pickup mechanism breaks, or if there aren't any totes left easily accessible due to an awesome alliance parter or some other reason, some robots will end up playing 'pool noodle defense.' This could lead to a way less exciting but still valuable version of TNA where both alliances agree to leave any litter that makes its way across the field where it is. This would be highly dependent on each alliance's strategy and litter-throwing abilities, but it could get each alliance quite a few points if executed correctly.

[apm4242]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the rules, but what is the downside to throwing noodles? Before the team update that added the alliance colors, I'd understand not throwing for fear of missing and giving the other alliance free points. But now if you hit your mark it's 4 points, if you don't its either 1 or 0.

I'm more concerned about litter in the field making it harder to move precarious stacks...

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by apm4242

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the rules, but what is the downside to throwing noodles? Before the team update that added the alliance colors, I'd understand not throwing for fear of missing and giving the other alliance free points. But now if you hit your mark it's 4 points, if you don't its either 1 or 0.

I'm more concerned about litter in the field making it harder to move precarious stacks...

I totally agree. I'm really surprised that the scoring is four times as high for successfully "littering" as for "processing" litter.
Apart from considering a passive "funnel" to facilitate human loads of noodles into the RC, we haven't spent any robot development time on the litter. Unless you are so incredibly fast that you run out of totes and RCs, I don't see how it's ever going to be worthwhile to pick up a small, odd-shaped piece and carry it way over to the landfill for the only 1-point score in the game.
On the other hand, any litter you still have left behind the alliance wall at two minutes into the match should be tossed onto the field -- it might help, and can't hurt.

[Tyler Olds]

Originally Posted by wesbass23

While they might not be important in the early regionals or qualifications at most places. They will certainly come into play at the higher levels of play. Litter in the RC is worth up to 42 points that eventually can't be ignored.

I honestly have the exact opposite thought. Early matches will most likely be low scoring for the most part and I believe many matches at regionals will be decided because litter will be more than 50% of the points scored.

[pandamonium]

I am not sure why litter is confusing so many teams. Do you realize that even if you manage to land one of your pieces of litter fully over the opposing alliances land fill they just push it in during the remaining 20 seconds??

Put a bin on your robot just collect the easy 6 - 10 points for ending in the landfill.

[MichaelBick]

Originally Posted by Tyler Olds

I honestly have the exact opposite thought. Early matches will most likely be low scoring for the most part and I believe many matches at regionals will be decided because litter will be more than 50% of the points scored.

Remember, winning matches doesn't matter

[asid61]

Originally Posted by MichaelBick

Remember, winning matches doesn't matter

The post you quoted was talking about the number of litter points, not winning matches. You can get quite a few points for litter.
Also, point denial is really good. Even in quals. If you can prove to the good teams that you have good point denial (cans), even with only decent scoring capabilities, then you have a good shot at getting picked even if you don't score tons of points. Yes, getting the most points is good too, but realistically (at SVR, for example) we're not going to beat the Poofs almost as a given (I think they've won SVR 15 out of 16 years or something). So playing for picks is a workable strategy.

Originally Posted by pandamonium

I am not sure why litter is confusing so many teams. Do you realize that even if you manage to land one of your pieces of litter fully over the opposing alliances land fill they just push it in during the remaining 20 seconds??

Put a bin on your robot just collect the easy 6 - 10 points for ending in the landfill.

That's 20 seconds of them not scoring tote points. If a team has a 4 tote stack with 20 seconds to go, will they go for the litter or for two more totes? Either way you win as they use valuable time.

[RunawayEngineer]

I haven't tried throwing the noodles, but I tend to believe the people who say that it is difficult to make the distance. I think at early matches people are going to realize that in trying to throw them that they are making more obstacles for their own machines.
I think that the 6 points for one in a scored RC is going to be overlooked, as well. In early matches, everyone is going to be so focused on stacking totes that they will not notice that getting an RC with a noodle in it is worth more points to them.
Later on, since RCs are limited, making the most out of each one will be essential. That's where the noodles come in.

[Wyatt Jordan]

Throwing the litter onto the other team's side could be very useful in messing up the opposing alliances stacks. If you throw the litter far enough (which I believe is possible) to hit the first scoring platform and fall right next to the stacks they have made there is a chance that a robot on the opposing alliance would knock their stack over trying to pick up the litter. Especially considering they wouldn't be able to see the litter well if it is on the other side of a stack on the scoring platform.

[wesbass23]

Originally Posted by Tyler Olds

I honestly have the exact opposite thought. Early matches will most likely be low scoring for the most part and I believe many matches at regionals will be decided because litter will be more than 50% of the points scored.

Litter in the RC or litter in the landfill? If litter in the landfill is more than 50% of the points scored in a match then these are going to be some low scoring matches! However littler in the RC, while worth much more, is also a lot harder to achieve, especially for an early match in the season.