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Unread 24-01-2015, 10:34
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Are lunacy/Slick wheels legal in 2015?

Timesaving edit: Yes they are. See example 5 and example 6 given in section 4.1:
Quote:
EXAMPLE 5: A team has a COTS single-board processor version 1.0, which can no longer be purchased. Only the COTS single-board processor version 2.0
may be purchased. If the COTS single-board processor version 1.0 is functionally equivalent to its original condition, it may be used.
EXAMPLE 6: A team has a COTS gearbox which has been discontinued. If the COTS gearbox is functionally equivalent to its original condition, it may be used


Original Post
Our team, like many that have been around since 2009, has a large pile of the slick plastic wheels from Lunacy (and from KoPs since). Currently, our prototype robot is sporting a pair of slick hard plastic wheels on the back.

As we look towards building our competition robot, we realized that the Lunacy-style wheels aren't COTS parts anymore - we cannot find anywhere selling them. So since they were manufactured before build season and aren't fairly available to every team, it seems like R12 would ban them.

So before I file a Q&A thread about it, does anyone have any thoughts (and rule citings) on why they definitely are or are not allowed? We'd hate to go with Lunacy wheels and then discover at inspection that they'd be considered non-COTS parts made before kickoff and thus illegal.

Last edited by Bongle : 24-01-2015 at 11:05.
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Unread 24-01-2015, 10:39
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Re: Are lunacy/Slick wheels legal in 2015?

They were COTS and also provided in the KOP in 2009. What do the rules say about parts that are no longer available, but were originally COTS or a previous year KOP? As far as I can tell they are legal, but you might want to read the rules carefully, so you can make that determination yourself.

The way I read the rules, is that if an item is not specifically disallowed, then we can use it.

Last edited by MrForbes : 24-01-2015 at 10:43.
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Unread 24-01-2015, 10:40
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Re: Are lunacy/Slick wheels legal in 2015?

They're legal based on being in a previous KOP.
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Unread 24-01-2015, 10:43
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Re: Are lunacy/Slick wheels legal in 2015?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
They're legal based on being in a previous KOP.
Do you have a rule citation for that? It would seem that there are many things from previous KOPs that may not be legal this year (pneumatic parts, motors, etc). The rules say that KOP items are legal, but I don't want to assume that that means "any KOP from any year", I'm guessing they're only referring to the 2015 KOP.

My understanding of the COTS rules is that they are to prevent a team from gaining an advantage by using parts that are not widely available to other teams. Suppose that the slick wheels or other past-KOP items gave a fantastic advantage this year: it would be unfair that only teams who competed in the last couple years had access to them, while rookies did not.

Last edited by Bongle : 24-01-2015 at 10:46.
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Unread 24-01-2015, 10:47
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Re: Are lunacy/Slick wheels legal in 2015?

KOP items for the control system from previous years are mostly not allowed. But there are special rules about the control system, that do not apply to other parts of the robot. There are also special rules about motors, and pneumatics, and power distribution. Wheels are not part of any of these special categories

The use of mechanical parts appears to be completely wide open, as long as the part is not hazardous, or too expensive.

The slick wheels are neither hazardous nor expensive.
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Unread 24-01-2015, 10:50
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Re: Are lunacy/Slick wheels legal in 2015?

Kit of Parts items are defined in the manual as: " the collection of items listed on any Kit of Parts Checklist, distributed via FIRST Choice, or obtained via a Product Donation
Voucher (PDV)."

A few exceptions to this are also listed in the rules, but only for items that were a part of the old control systems, or that have been deemed dangerous (like the white Clippard air tanks).
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Unread 24-01-2015, 11:04
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Re: Are lunacy/Slick wheels legal in 2015?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard View Post
Kit of Parts items are defined in the manual as: " the collection of items listed on any Kit of Parts Checklist, distributed via FIRST Choice, or obtained via a Product Donation
Voucher (PDV)."

A few exceptions to this are also listed in the rules, but only for items that were a part of the old control systems, or that have been deemed dangerous (like the white Clippard air tanks).
My interpretation of the "any" is that they're referring to the multiple kit of parts checklists included in this year's kit. Most things from past years' kits are COTS items and can be purchased by any team, whereas these wheels aren't available anymore.

However, I have found some convincing examples that address the "was COTS but is no longer available" situation:
Quote:
EXAMPLE 5: A team has a COTS single-board processor version 1.0, which can no longer be purchased. Only the COTS single-board processor version 2.0
may be purchased. If the COTS single-board processor version 1.0 is functionally equivalent to its original condition, it may be used.
EXAMPLE 6: A team has a COTS gearbox which has been discontinued. If the COTS gearbox is functionally equivalent to its original condition, it may be used
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Unread 24-01-2015, 11:44
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Re: Are lunacy/Slick wheels legal in 2015?

Last year the GDC ruled that any meant any year. Insert the usual caveat about previous years rules.

An example would be a globe motor. It is in a KOP which would make legal to be on the robot. It it not on the list of allowed motors in the 2015 rules so you cannot use it as a motor.
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Last edited by FrankJ : 24-01-2015 at 11:47.
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