Grabbing 4 Bins from the step in Auto

[Robot Sans]

I wanted to know what the likely hood of a (single) team being able to grab all 4 bins from the step in auto. Is any team here thinking of doing it and is it really required points wise, bearing in mind that if you are to grab these 4 bins your opponents could have a difficult time scoring more points as most of the points come from the bins.

[IronicDeadBird]

My original idea was to tether to those center bins in auto and drag em out. But then they made it so container sets could only happen once and the landfill was a volume not an area so it was quickly shot down by the GDC. In my mind you don't need to get all the bins during auto to do well it is just that the bins mean you can do less work and get more points. (once again my opinion)

[TogetherSword8]

I agree someone will be able to do it, it may be something like the auto goalie last year, I only ever saw one that did it really well last year, I could see maybe 2 or 3 be able to pull off the 4 this year, and I would put money at least one of those teams is in Einstein.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Robot Sans

I wanted to know what the likely hood of a (single) team being able to grab all 4 bins from the step in auto. Is any team here thinking of doing it and is it really required points wise, bearing in mind that if you are to grab these 4 bins your opponents could have a difficult time scoring more points as most of the points come from the bins.

It's not even worth setting a prop bet on any team doing this. Heck, it's not even worth doing that for some specific teams. I'm more interested to see how my hypotheses generated from these questions pan out in competitive trials:
a) Who is going to complete it in competition first?
b) Who is going to do it the fastest?
c) How are teams who are already looking at super high levels of play preparing these mechanisms to deal with more insane torque than what this maneuver generates uncontested?
d) How many teams are actually going to try for it?

The idea of a 4-can grabber in auto seemed like something teams would roll out at their second events or championships, but now I wouldn't be shocked to see some yahoos pulling it in a random week 1 regional.

[Robot Sans]

It would be a great mechanism to have on your robot even if its the only thing your robot could do. Many powerhouse teams that can stack like crazy would want a bot that can reliably grab those 4 bins in playoffs and then have them ready to cap stacks

[Jared]

We've talked about a 4 bin grabber on our team, and we think that very competitive teams will have this ability. Being able to limit the opposing team to only 3 recycling containers while giving yourself as many as you could possibly use may prove to be extremely helpful.

Remember, the green container triples the value of the stack, and if your opponent has less than half the opportunities to triple one of their stack, they're not going to want to waste this sparse resource on a low stack. If you've got tons of containers, you can cap all your stacks. That said, you still need three very good robots to get to the point where any more than three green containers provides a huge benefit.

Personally, I expect to see a lot of container grabbing robots. A single green container adds 24 points to a 6 stack (or 21 to a 5 stack), which is worth more than a 20 point stacked toted set in autonomous mode. Even if your alliance only uses one out of the four containers, it can still be worth it!

By the time we get to championships, I don't think it's unreasonable to see a multi-container arm against a single container arm, or even two multi-container arms against each other. If robots are competitive enough, the fastest container grabber will be an extremely sought after robot.

If robots were extremely competitive, the game would be decided by the first second of autonomous mode, and the alliance that grabbed the containers first would win.

[BBray_T1296]

Originally Posted by Jared

If robots were extremely competitive, the game would be decided by the first second of autonomous mode, and the alliance that grabbed the containers first would win.

I think that this contest will be decided on bagup day, not in the first second of auto mode.

If your robot can latch onto the containers in 2 seconds, and the opposing robot takes 4 seconds, because of number of drive motors, gearing etc, The will have lost before they even showed up.

That being said, if 2 robots have very similar grab times and are facing head to head, I am personally very much looking forward to seeing these robots rip each other's arms in autonomous mode.

[asid61]

I privately considered doing this, but I knew that my team would be against doing it. Too boring for them to build a just-can robot.
A giant fold-out/fold-in polycarb sheet that begins the match out would be enough to drop down onto 4 cans and grab them. I ddon't think any team could grab it faster than that, or at least grab it and pull it with more power than your drivetrain could.

[apples000]

We're doing a container grabber this year, and it's actually not that difficult. It's just some PVC pipe, and to keep the thing from wobbling all over the place, we've ran some steel cables from the end of the PVC to various points on the robot. We've over tightened the cables so that the PVC bends a few degrees near the end, resulting in more stiffness.

At the end of auto, surgical tubing will retract it all back into the robot.

It's simple and light enough that I predict teams will be adding these arms onto their robot for the championship.

[who716]

well we are planning once the mechanism is done to grab two at a time, in auto swing them backwards into the auto zone then move to the left and grab the other two and swing them as-well into the auto hopefully within the 15 seconds the way we calculated it is possible with our setup. one small problem we are hoping we can manage with is have two containers 54" off the frame in the same direction while moving could causing tipping. but we can fold them up to center the weight for long distance travel, but by doing that it pretty much eliminates our 15 seconds

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by who716

well we are planning once the mechanism is done to grab two at a time, in auto swing them backwards into the auto zone then move to the left and grab the other two and swing them as-well into the auto hopefully within the 15 seconds the way we calculated it is possible with our setup. one small problem we are hoping we can manage with is have two containers 54" off the frame in the same direction while moving could causing tipping. but we can fold them up to center the weight for long distance travel, but by doing that it pretty much eliminates our 15 seconds

Grabbing recycling containers off the step in auto is not a primary goal of ours. However, we will have some capability there... We almost certainly will be able to grab one and, with a little time, might have a good play for a second. Basically, we'll be able to grab any game piece we want, but, to get to those on the step, we'll need to push landfill totes out of the way. Just how much will we be able to do in auto will be better known once the robot is finished.

As the mentor who leads scouting and tactics, I would be watching robots with long grabbing arms like this very closely. It seems to me that the level of precision necessary to be successful would make the construction of such a robot very, very difficult. Moreover, there would be some considerable risks involved in its usage:
* If something is ever-so-slightly misaligned, I could see those long arms knocking the RC's off the step in the wrong direction.
* Again, with a misalignment, should an arm reach too far and contact another robot, it could lead to a red card. (Ref discretion - a hook reaching too far could be seen as "strategic" or "egregious" if it gives a an advantage or affects the other robot.
* There would certainly be concerns with center-of-gravity. How would the robot react if another robot were to grab the same container at (or just after) your robot and pull? Could your robot fall over?

All that said, such a robot could be the ideal partner for ours... I would be watching such a robot very, very closely through preliminary rounds and wanting to know: Did they do it so well that it is the ultimate partner? or, did they miss a step, causing it to be a high risk to be a veritable disaster?

[ttedrow]

Originally Posted by Robot Sans

I wanted to know what the likely hood of a (single) team being able to grab all 4 bins from the step in auto. Is any team here thinking of doing it and is it really required points wise, bearing in mind that if you are to grab these 4 bins your opponents could have a difficult time scoring more points as most of the points come from the bins.

Did I miss an update? When did FIRST add bins to game?

Totes: Yellow and Gray
Recycle Containers: RC for short.

[rich2202]

I was thinking of two options for autonomous:

1) drag your RC to the Autozone, and go after a RC on the step, and bring it to the autozone.

2) Stack the 3 totes and bring them to the Autozone (assuming that the other 2 RC's are out of the way.

Assuming that you have 3 bots that can do that, you have the max autonomous points. The rules don't say which 3 RC's need to be in the Autozone to get the points.

My plan was to use a cowcatcher to get through the landfill to get the RC. I don't see how one robot has enough time to get more than 1 or 2 RC's and get back to the autozone.

I discounted the ability to extend over the Totes in the Landfill to get to the RC's. Seems like too much of a single purpose component.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by ttedrow

Did I miss an update? When did FIRST add bins to game?

Totes: Yellow and Gray
Recycle Containers: RC for short.

We usually call them "bins" and "totes". Occasionally "cans" but never just RCs. Too confusing/ unintuitive.

[Chris is me]

Teams will do it. You "just" need to get a huge bar behind them and pull. The real question is who will do it while keeping at least 3 of the bins upright... That's the challenge.

I think teams that can get a single bin from the edges off the platform in auto will pair up with a team adept at getting two of them from the center in order to try and get that advantage secured.