Mentors Not Reading Rules

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

What he said. Its the most boring two hours ever, but its incredibly worth it.
Alternatives involve grouping up and having each group read an entire section and then report the rules to everyone else in some sort of condensed but accurate way.

And obviously the team doesn't need to read the whole manual, just the arena and game sections, as well as any game-specific/changed robot rules.

The members who care will read the manual again in their free-time (as they should) but now hopefully everyone has a reasonably accurate understanding of the rules and won't spend build time arguing for/concentrating on something that's illegal*.

(This is not particularly helpful for your current situation)


*unless there is a grey area for troll-bots to squeeze under.

And tournament. At very least the Qualification Seeding section. It never ceases to surprise me the number of folks who don't understand what you have to do to seed high.

For folks in Districts, I'd also suggest reading how you qualify for DCMP and CMP.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

For folks in Districts, I'd also suggest reading how you qualify for DCMP and CMP.

Has this information been made available? I remember Frank's Blog mentioning that they're working through the translation from WLT to QA, but I haven't heard of final results.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Taylor

Has this information been made available? I remember Frank's Blog mentioning that they're working through the translation from WLT to QA, but I haven't heard of final results.

Dunno, haven't read the rulebook


I don't think it's been released yet, which is somewhat annoying.

[rlowe61]

Rules, we don't need no stinking Rules.
Speaking for myself, and not all mentors. I read the majority of the rules fully and look for the "Loop-Holes" that may cause confusion later on. As for the Tournament Rules, I'm not usually as well versed on those, but I have at least read them once. My fun as a Mentor is to follow the updates and catch the students who didn't know an update was released.
I have to agree that not all ideas, even if against a rule, are bad ideas. They are just ideas which can't be implimented and the discussion of such must be civil and professional. This is the most important lesson we can teach. As a mentor we all know that in the real world, and it doesn't matter what line of work you're in, there will be disagreements and how you handle them is the most important aspect to how you are preceived and a Professional.

Good Luck, & Have FUN

roger

[Alan Anderson]

As a mentor helping with the team's robot design and fabrication (and as a sometime Robot Inspector), I make sure I know all the Robot rules. The electrical rules are especially vital for my role as a Control System Advisor. I admit that the Game and Tournament rules are less important to me personally, as I'm not going to be playing the game myself.

[RunawayEngineer]

Dealing with mentors is tricky - it's a volunteer gig, so you don't have the freedom to demand much that they don't want to do. Respectfully handling disagreements is paramount.
I find the phrase "Show me in the manual where _________ " helpful when I am confident that the rules support my position. At the very least, it will reveal if someone is simply being bullheaded (they won't look in the rules, but will continue arguing). It changes the conversation from arguing on what you remember the rules to be to the actual wording of the rules. This puts you on the track to an answer, rather than on track to the better arguer.

[Christopher149]

Originally Posted by Taylor

Has this information been made available? I remember Frank's Blog mentioning that they're working through the translation from WLT to QA, but I haven't heard of final results.

They've finished the district advancement structure, but they haven't published it just yet.

[MrJohnston]

OUr mentors spend so much time volunteering with the team (and away from their families) that it just does not seem right to demand that they all read the manual and know it well.

However, a working knowledge of the rules is absolutely imperative before robot design commences. Here is how we handle it:
1) We spend most of the first day after kickoff going through the rules and making sure we all understand them.
2) We encourage everybody to study the rules and require it of certain students - such as the drive team.
3) We have one mentor and one students who are the "rules experts." Their primary position in the club is to konw the rules inside-out and to study research any questions that might arise.
4) Before we design any part of the robot, we discuss both the desired functionality and any applicable rules as a group.
5) We nearly always have one of our "rules experts" on hand to clarify anything that might come up.
6) We make sure the mentor who oversees any specific aspect of the robot has a hard copy of the written rules pertaining to that aspect.

All-in-all, this seems to create a group of mentors who can spend their time doing what they love best (helping kids to design robots) who are knowledgeable enough about the rules.

[GaryVoshol]

Long ago on my daughter's team we had a lead mentor who didn't read his email. I was so grateful for those who pasted the email blasts here on CD.

[nicholsjj]

A side note on this post is I'm guessing that your team is having trouble on the rule interpretation itself as well. I would suggest when arguments occur bring out the rules and point out why you think whatever situation you are having an issue over is illegal or not. Our team always has an updated copy of the manual open for situations just like the one your team is having. If your mentor or teammates are still having issues over a certain point then first get more people involved from a discussion standpoint in order to get more clarity. If you are still troubled then ask the Q & A which interpretation of the rule is legal. Try not to get so heated over issues like this to the point that it ruins your build season. Remember that mentors are there to help you grow and develop as students, even if you think they are "out to" argue and "get" you*, and that FRC is meant to be a Fun experience and opportunity that you should enjoy.

*I had a personal, and partially shameful, experience like this with a mentor during my Senior and only Student year in FRC. We now are very good friends and now I have the privilege of mentoring her son. Looking at it from both sides of the table will open up you eyes.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

And tournament. At very least the Qualification Seeding section. It never ceases to surprise me the number of folks who don't understand what you have to do to seed high.

I can't stress this enough. The Tournament is always the first section I read. If your goal is to win an event, you need to understand what it takes to win the event. By reading the Tournament section you learn by what criteria teams are ranked and how matches are win. Once you understand this information, you can read the rest of the rules and start brainstorming strategies to maximize these criteria. FRC changes their ranking criteria regularly enough that it's essential to make yourself aware at the very beginning of every season.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I can't stress this enough. The Tournament is always the first section I read. If your goal is to win an event, you need to understand what it takes to win the event. By reading the Tournament section you learn by what criteria teams are ranked and how matches are win. Once you understand this information, you can read the rest of the rules and start brainstorming strategies to maximize these criteria. FRC changes their ranking criteria regularly enough that it's essential to make yourself aware at the very beginning of every season.

The longer you've been in FRC, the better this idea gets. You can read through the robot rules and start turning the wheels on some initial strategy ideas based on approaches you took in the past to a game that looks similar, only to realize how meaningless an approach to the game can be because how it wouldn't do squat for your position on the leaderboards. (2006 didn't have a little white bridge that held the same value as a win, iirc)

[seg9585]

We always have the exact opposite problem. All the mentors read the rules in depth, read all game updates and FAQs.

Only a small handful of students actually do (I polled the team in Week 2 asking how many honestly read the rules, only a few students raised their hands).

We sound like broken records when students keep coming up to us with ideas in WEEK 4 clearly in violation of rules and we just say "Can't do that, Read The Rules!!"

[orangemoore]

Everyone should read the rules. It doesn't matter who you are, a mentor, a student, or even a parent helping. If you haven't yet and you are at robotics, spend the time when you are in robotics to do so. There isn't an excuse to not have read the rules if you are at robotics consistently.

[EricH]

I usually get asked what the updates are when I show up at the shop.



Can't wait for a blank update so I can tell the team that the game has totally changed.