Should You Get Totes From Landfill

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

I strongly disagree. I think that having totes that are largely restrained from movement, in a known orientation, with a back-stop on at least two sides, will be much easier to pick up that a lose tote at an arbitrary orientation on the field. It all depends on how the pick-up mechanism is designed.

It took teams at least that long to pick up game pieces in the last 4 FRC games, I don't see why it would be significantly different this year.

[pandamonium]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

I'm going to assume then that they're leaving RC's to someone else.

Do not assume anything.
Teams can field 2 robots or do other crazy stuff that was not allowed in the past. There is also a legal way to cut the 5 second human player load time down quite a bit.

but the point of my post was that a good third pick probably wont have access to the human player station. being able to stack and score 12 - 20 from landfill would be a solid third pick.

[nicholsjj]

I want to add that the visual restrictions of the drivers will be more impacted for the Step totes than the driver station totes. I know with just a single stack made getting the step totes exponentially harder during our practice session due to sight restrictions, note we haven't put on a camera yet. I think a good alliance will probably have robots get the step totes enough to clear the RC's and then focus on the driver station totes for scoring purposes. The bigger question is do you believe that you need more than 20-30 totes per match at a regional/district level. If so then the step totes are a must, but they almost have to be done first.

[pandamonium]

Originally Posted by nicholsjj

The bigger question is do you believe that you need more than 20-30 totes per match at a regional/district level.

Yes i do believe so. Lets estimate that there is room for 9 totes to be comfortably scored on each platform. 4 stacks of 5 = 20 totes 14 stacks of 2 = 28 totes. 48 totes.

[New Lightning]

"Teams can field 2 robots or do other crazy stuff that was not allowed in the past."

How can teams field 2 robots. To my knowledge you can only bag one robot, and only have on robot pass inspection per team. Now unless I am wrong on either point I don't see how you could possibly field 2 robots for one team. And what do you mean by "other crazy stuff". It just seems very vague, could you please clarify.

[Jaywalker1711]

Originally Posted by New Lightning

"Teams can field 2 robots or do other crazy stuff that was not allowed in the past."

How can teams field 2 robots. To my knowledge you can only bag one robot, and only have on robot pass inspection per team. Now unless I am wrong on either point I don't see how you could possibly field 2 robots for one team. And what do you mean by "other crazy stuff". It just seems very vague, could you please clarify.

The rule updates do not specify a restriction on maximum extensions beyond frame perimeter/transport configuration except for height.

The poster is saying that you could very well make 2 robots that are tethered together

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by pandamonium

Do not assume anything.
Teams can field 2 robots or do other crazy stuff that was not allowed in the past. There is also a legal way to cut the 5 second human player load time down quite a bit.

but the point of my post was that a good third pick probably wont have access to the human player station. being able to stack and score 12 - 20 from landfill would be a solid third pick.

If my third pick at any given regional can score 12-20 totes from the landfill, then no one at the regional must have scouted at all and this dream third pick team must have sat dead for nearly every single match.

I can see the top few alliance captains scoring 12-20 from the landfill each match, with the third pick at the best events being able to score at best maybe 6 totes.

Originally Posted by pandamonium

Yes i do believe so. Lets estimate that there is room for 9 totes to be comfortably scored on each platform. 4 stacks of 5 = 20 totes 14 stacks of 2 = 28 totes. 48 totes.

There are 7 possible recycling containers to score, assuming you somehow get all of the ones on the step. 7 stacks of 6 totes is 42 totes. If your alliance scores that, I applaud you, especially at the regional level. There's no reason to score any more than that until the highest levels.

[cadandcookies]

I'll go with an answer similar to the one my high school computer science would give:

"It depends."

FIRST games are based around the idea that the couple thousand teams are going to come up with a few thousand solutions. To any FRC game there's never been a "correct solution"-- of course, they run the gamut from borderline useless to world champion, but there's far too much variety to make a good case for there being a single correct way to play a game.

[snoman]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

Why do you care about how many totes you take away from the opposing alliance?

Because they can't score with them. Take them even if you don't use them

[Christopher149]

Originally Posted by Jaywalker1711

The rule updates do not specify a restriction on maximum extensions beyond frame perimeter/transport configuration except for height.

The poster is saying that you could very well make 2 robots that are tethered together

To be pedantic, you can field one robot that consists of multiple connected systems attached by flexible tethering. So, say a robot and an attached powered chassis.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by snoman

Because they can't score with them. Take them even if you don't use them

Unless you happen to be in the finals round, this is the wrong mentality to have for this game. If you're not going to use them then taking the time to grab them will only hurt your alliance since you could be doing other things with your time.

[GeeTwo]

About half of the totes available to you are in the landfill, and you don't have to wait for the human player to feed them to you one at a time. Further, there are only two HP stations. This means that to work efficiently, an alliance needs to have at least one of its members working the landfill. Having your robot be able to do that (and also work an HP station) is the only way to ensure that you will never be on an alliance that is unable to score those totes.

For this reason, we focused our design on the landfill, while ensuring that we can also score RCs and totes. We do not anticipate any difficulty recycling litter at the HP station, apart from the time factor.

[Tammyo]

I think it is important to have a robot that has both abilities. You want to be versatile because you never know what your alliance will be able to do. You might get a situation where two of your alliances can only get totes from the human player station therefore, you will need to be able to get totes from the landfill.

[Ginger Power]

My question is: Who is more likely to seed higher, a robot that can only stack from the landfill, or a robot that can only stack from the HP? I tend to want to say the landfill because it is arguably the more difficult of the 2 tasks. This way you'll never be on an alliance that isn't capable/efficient at acquiring those totes. On the other hand I could see teams who load from the HP score 20 to 30 totes every match. This stems another question as well... what type of robot will be the more valuable draft pick? I think it depends on your answer to question one to a great extent.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

It took teams at least that long to pick up game pieces in the last 4 FRC games, I don't see why it would be significantly different this year.

You think it took 20s to pick up game pieces in the last 4 years? Really?

What leads you to believe that picking up landfill totes will take twice as long as free totes? This is what I'm really curious to know.