Robot Numbering, Attractive Solutions?

[PayneTrain]

I know some people are going to take this thread as an opportunity to be cute about how it's a standard and if you don't like it, you know where to put it, etc., but understand there are teams who have built Hall of Fame resumes that include impeccable branding standards to establish their identity across their robot, apparel, and other elements of their team. Students and their advisors take pride in the work they do developing these standards. I do understand that the creators of the rule wanted a standard, but I think it's ok to call it a bad standard, not allowing the smallest of latitudes in way of white on black (which I would argue could be more visible).

It's at the point where some teams will opt to have these numbers easily concealable/removable and make their number logos that they spent time developing to create a unique and highly visible identity larger than the placards.

I know this is highly subjective, and I hope a Hall of Fame team with great identity standards can prove me wrong here, but even the bumpers at their worst didn't look this bad.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I know some people are going to take this thread as an opportunity to be cute about how it's a standard and if you don't like it, you know where to put it, etc., but understand there are teams who have built Hall of Fame resumes that include impeccable branding standards to establish their identity across their robot, apparel, and other elements of their team. Students and their advisors take pride in the work they do developing these standards. I do understand that the creators of the rule wanted a standard, but I think it's ok to call it a bad standard, not allowing the smallest of latitudes in way of white on black (which I would argue could be more visible).

It's at the point where some teams will opt to have these numbers easily concealable/removable and make their number logos that they spent time developing to create a unique and highly visible identity larger than the placards.

I know this is highly subjective, and I hope a Hall of Fame team with great identity standards can prove me wrong here, but even the bumpers at their worst didn't look this bad.

Well said. I agree entirely. At least they didn't mandate the font.

The numbering rules of years past really were more than sufficient and did not need change. I don't know how to say this in a graciously professional way, but I blame the teams who always somehow managed to make crappy numbers that you couldn't read as a reason for the new change. These teams who cannot figure out how to display their own number properly are teams that really ought to be participating in VEX instead. You know who they are. There's a handful at every event.

Let this be a lesson to all of us: If you allow your fellow competitors to get away with poor quality work, and we'll all be mandated to implement "solutions" that are better than these teams' poor quality work, but worse than the top teams' high-quality work. It really reflects poorly on the teams that have been doing it a while that we have newer teams that struggle with these rather mundane tasks. It says that we don't do enough as mentors, which I'll admit, we don't.

If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm not a fan of the black on white color scheme. I prefer quite the opposite, and have never had any trouble seeing it, from over 100 feet away.

But, I'll get over the numbers eventually, and I'm thankful bumpers are gone.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Well said. I agree entirely. At least they didn't mandate the font.

The numbering rules of years past really were more than sufficient and did not need change. I don't know how to say this in a graciously professional way, but I blame the teams who always somehow managed to make crappy numbers that you couldn't read as a reason for the new change. These teams who cannot figure out how to display their own number properly are the teams that really ought to be participating in VEX instead. You know who they are. There's a handful at every event.

Let this be a lesson to all of us: If you allow your fellow competitors to get away with poor quality work, and we'll all be mandated to implement "solutions" that are better than these teams' poor quality work, but worse than the top teams' high-quality work.

If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm not a fan of the black on white color scheme. I prefer quite the opposite, and have never had any trouble seeing it, from over 100 feet away.

But, I'll get over the numbers eventually, and I'm thankful bumpers are gone.

An idea that might be too expensive, but regionals make 4 laminated cards for all teams and those that can't reach the guidelines outlined in the rules get the cards and have to use them.

Too expensive in that it's pricey enough for some blowhard to shoot the idea down, but renting out a lamination system is minor expense for a regional or a region/state district system that prints off a surprising amount of stuff at an event.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

An idea that might be too expensive, but regionals make 4 laminated cards for all teams and those that can't reach the guidelines outlined in the rules get the cards and have to use them.

Reading some of the posts here and in other threads on the subject, it looks to me like many teams will succeed in making the numbers illegible, even with the strict guidance in the game manual.

One of these days, we might all get paper numbers before the race that we attach to our robot with safety pins. At least the refs and scouts could then easily tell which runners are which.

It would be a minor expense to have a full set of numbers printed on card stock for each regional.

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

It would be a minor expense to have a full set of numbers printed on card stock for each regional.

It would be almost no expense. In fact, that would be an excellent way for a team to come to competition prepared to help other teams out: have preprinted, laminated numbers for every team.

[MrJohnston]

We just aren't going to spend much time worrying about the numbers... I printed off five number tags: Impact, 420 point (black on white paper). I then laminated them. Before each competition we'll tape them prominently and securely on the robot. When showing off our robotic beauty, we'll remove the numbers.... unless there is some nasty cheese-holing or wiring we wish to obfuscate....

Of course, if some bored student decides to come up with a pretty solution that doesn't interfere with robot function or put us over the weight limit, we can use that instead.... Whatever.

[runneals]

We used some roll material from TwillUSA for the bumper material (adhesive backing in red/blue) and then cut out numbers from a white roll (also with adhesive backing)

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by runneals

We used some roll material from TwillUSA for the bumper material (adhesive backing in red/blue) and then cut out numbers from a white roll (also with adhesive backing)

I hope you realize that what you described sounds great for last year's rules, but totally don't match this year's rules, as numbers must be black on white background (and 3.5" tall with .5" stroke minimums and at least 1" of white background around the numbers. )

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

I hope you realize that what you described sounds great for last year's rules, but totally don't match this year's rules, as numbers must be black on white background (and 3.5" tall with .5" stroke minimums and at least 1" of white background around the numbers. )

Buy a black roll?

[Ed Sparks]

I read this thread today and it's got me a bit bothered. The rules are clear regarding the requirement. It's OK to not like a rule (take it up with the GDC) ..... but it's not going to go well for you if you ignore it expecting to reason your way out of it at an event. If you come to an event I'm inspecting at, and choose to argue your case, I'll allow you to use a piece of duct tape to attach the sheet of notebook paper with your team number on it over your airbrushed work of art .....

[GeeTwo]

FRC mandates unattractive numbers this year; get over it. If you aren't happy with it and feel the need to protest, give them ugly but unambiguous. I went through several of those searching for a decent solution.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Ed Sparks

I read this thread today and it's got me a bit bothered. The rules are clear regarding the requirement. It's OK to not like a rule (take it up with the GDC) ..... but it's not going to go well for you if you ignore it expecting to reason your way out of it at an event. If you come to an event I'm inspecting at, and choose to argue your case, I'll allow you to use a piece of duct tape to attach the sheet of notebook paper with your team number on it over your airbrushed work of art .....

We must be reading different threads because no one in here mentioned ignoring rules. There are things I personally find more valuable than arguing with inspectors on practice day, and I'm sure most people hold the same feeling.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

We must be reading different threads because no one in here mentioned ignoring rules. There are things I personally find more valuable than arguing with inspectors on practice day, and I'm sure most people hold the same feeling.

Agreed; I don't see what's appearing overly controversial in this thread. Why would anyone ignore the rule or quibble with an RI? (I for one am not looking forward to putting on my yellow hat and discussing R2 at any length. Just put the sign on, I've got more important things on this checklist for both your concern and mine.) This thread has a number of pretty cool elegantly legal designs, some complaints and discussion of potential changes and consequences, and a few people asking for clarification, but I don't recall anyone screaming 'life's not fair' and 'let's fight with inspectors'. If anything, the metadiscussion is about to what degree this an issue that can or should be brought up in official/potentially impactful channels.

[runneals]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

I hope you realize that what you described sounds great for last year's rules, but totally don't match this year's rules, as numbers must be black on white background (and 3.5" tall with .5" stroke minimums and at least 1" of white background around the numbers. )

Just reverse the colors (and my head isn't in the game, as I don't have a team this year)

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by runneals

We used some roll material from TwillUSA for the bumper material (adhesive backing in red/blue) and then cut out numbers from a white roll (also with adhesive backing)

Originally Posted by runneals

Just reverse the colors (and my head isn't in the game, as I don't have a team this year)

Red/blue on white doesn't meet the requirements either. It has to be black numbers on a white background, nothing else.