Robot Numbering, Attractive Solutions?

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Well said. I agree entirely. At least they didn't mandate the font.

The numbering rules of years past really were more than sufficient and did not need change. I don't know how to say this in a graciously professional way, but I blame the teams who always somehow managed to make crappy numbers that you couldn't read as a reason for the new change. These teams who cannot figure out how to display their own number properly are teams that really ought to be participating in VEX instead. You know who they are. There's a handful at every event.

Let this be a lesson to all of us: If you allow your fellow competitors to get away with poor quality work, and we'll all be mandated to implement "solutions" that are better than these teams' poor quality work, but worse than the top teams' high-quality work. It really reflects poorly on the teams that have been doing it a while that we have newer teams that struggle with these rather mundane tasks. It says that we don't do enough as mentors, which I'll admit, we don't.

If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm not a fan of the black on white color scheme. I prefer quite the opposite, and have never had any trouble seeing it, from over 100 feet away.

But, I'll get over the numbers eventually, and I'm thankful bumpers are gone.

Your comment is actually pretty offensive. I am a member of "one of those teams" from last year we had a barely built bot and didn't have time to take an hour to paint on numbers so we did it in 10 seconds and it looked like crap. This year we are getting to the end with a working bot so we will have time to make our number look nice. Some newer teams like us have money, mentor, space and time issues. We wanted to do frc so we did and we have been doing it. Just because a team did bad one year doesn't mean they are not good enough. Please save your rude and abnoxious comments for when your on a team who has 1 full time mentor, a tiny room, and such a tiny budget that you can't afford anything but bar stock and l bracket.

[jvriezen]

Having a common standard (horizontal numbers, black on white, minimum size) allows inspectors, refs, FTAs, judges and every one else to nearly instantly identify a robot's number. Previous years bumper rules attempted to do the same.

Not having to look around for whatever creative variant has been used makes things easier for everyone.

As an inspector, when I go looking for team's pit, I always look for the standard pit team number sign that have been used for years to quickly determine if it is the pit I'm looking for.

Runners in the Boston Marathon all have the EXACT SAME number style for the same types of reason - that's one of the premier marathons in the world, and runners I'm sure care a lot about their appearance, but they don't get to design their own number-- and I don't think they complain about it. And you don't see any wild variations in jersey player numbers for major sports either-- granted they get some design leeway, but I suspect they have to get their designs approved by the league prior to using it. That's not practical with FRC, since the first chance is during inspection.

If I were an LRI, I'd be sure to have resources on hand to allow me to print numbers on paper or card stock and hand it to any team in questionable compliance on the numbers.

In fact, it would actually make sense if drive teams were required to have 'bibs' or other required large team number markings, rather than just a button-- so drive team members could be identified instantaneously also. (or more importantly, people who aren't drive/media folks who shouldn't be on the field.)

[Conor Ryan]

Does the team number have to be the team number we are given? Can we list our team number in Base 16 or Base 2? What about Roman Numerals?

Game Announcer:
There goes M-M-M-M-C-M-X-C-I down the field, about to stake another tote!

/sarcasm

So back to the original question, attractive solutions to this year's tougher numbering rules.

So a couple of things to consider, you'll want the number to appear to be Matte, with all the lights around the field you don't want to give off the wrong type of reflection.

If you still meet the basic requirements of a Black Number on a white background, you can still dress it up with LED's on the border or with layers and back lighting.

Another opinion: Teams are going to not pass Championship level inspection because of the 0.5" stroke length requirement.

I'm also looking for a team that will have their numbers on a large rotating cylinder.

[nicholsjj]

Our team 3-D Printed our numbers this year with a White base and Black numbers on top. They came out pretty decent looking and they should give us better options for mounting. I'm not sure if the ekocycle has the bed space to make two numbers at a time as we made ours on a Makerbot Rep 2.

[jagoldman]

I was wandering around budget home supply store and found an interesting option... Mailbox/ address numbers! the ones that were there were the correct size and color. I think that this could be a really simple, cheap and elegant solution. They also have screw holes and are easily mountable!

[MrForbes]

The reflectorized ones are fun....try taking a flash picture of a robot that has them

[notmattlythgoe]

One question I have is since the intent of the rule is to see it from any angle on the field, what happens if totes or a can are blocking the number while they are being held by the robot? During inspection this number could be completely visible, but during a match it could end up hidden.

[BrendanB]

There aren't many things you can do to make them attractive however I am considering making a black and yellow set that we can easily swap out so we aren't stuck with not so great looking black and white all season.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

One question I have is since the intent of the rule is to see it from any angle on the field, what happens if totes or a can are blocking the number while they are being held by the robot? During inspection this number could be completely visible, but during a match it could end up hidden.

This has been answered in Q&A 145

A. The requirements defined in R2 do not account for game elements. Thus partial obstruction by anything but the ROBOT (e.g. TOTES, other ROBOTS, etc.) do not result in a violation of R2.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

This has been answered in Q&A 145

Thanks Jon.

[Addison4300]

Originally Posted by EricH

Just as a point of reference:

You are allowed to have more numbers than required, go crazy with those extras. But...

The GDC specifically stated a color scheme and size. You will need to meet those. As one of the Texas teams found out, even a license plate (which, in Texas, ARE black on white) might not be legal. Even simply reversing the color scheme won't fly, per the GDC.
I'm guessing that "attractive" is about a zero/ten on their list of "criteria we want these numbers to meet" and "standard" is about 11/10.

That was my teams question . We are probably going to use the new Texas License plate with the white background and black letters. We have to get it custom made to fit the size requirements however.

[PurpleInk]

My husband and I own our own vinyl cutting business and we have been cutting black vinyl on a white background for teams in our area. These stickers can then be put on any surface. Picture here. They're made of a vinyl rated for outdoor use for 5 years so they should stand up to two or three events

The team I mentor is sticking them on colored, corrugated plastic.

We had to update our branding and design standards to accommodate for them, but we're looking at them as license plates - you don't put it on your car because it looks good, you put it on because you want to be able to legally drive it.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by PurpleInk

We had to update our branding and design standards to accommodate for them, but we're looking at them as license plates - you don't put it on your car because it looks good, you put it on because you want to be able to legally drive it.

Ah....someone who gets it.

[K-Dawg157]

Originally Posted by PurpleInk

My husband and I own our own vinyl cutting business and we have been cutting black vinyl on a white background for teams in our area. These stickers can then be put on any surface. Picture here. They're made of a vinyl rated for outdoor use for 5 years so they should stand up to two or three events

The team I mentor is sticking them on colored, corrugated plastic.

We had to update our branding and design standards to accommodate for them, but we're looking at them as license plates - you don't put it on your car because it looks good, you put it on because you want to be able to legally drive it.

You know, out of all the explanations of why, I understand and like this one most.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Foster

Oh Sanddrag, a VEX slap? Are you unhappy that VEX sends out those really cool number plates?

Quite on the contrary, and the VEX numbers are irrelevant to my point. What I was trying to say is that FRC is the big leagues, and not everyone is ready for it. With a rookie dropout rate in FRC of nearly 50%, many schools would be better suited to participating in the VEX, or perhaps FTC programs.

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Your comment is actually pretty offensive. I am a member of "one of those teams" from last year we had a barely built bot and didn't have time to take an hour to paint on numbers so we did it in 10 seconds and it looked like crap. This year we are getting to the end with a working bot so we will have time to make our number look nice. Some newer teams like us have money, mentor, space and time issues. We wanted to do frc so we did and we have been doing it. Just because a team did bad one year doesn't mean they are not good enough. Please save your rude and abnoxious comments for when your on a team who has 1 full time mentor, a tiny room, and such a tiny budget that you can't afford anything but bar stock and l bracket.

I did precede my comment with a disclaimer that I was uncertain how to present my point in a nice way, but I feel it's a point that needed to be presented. Perhaps a robot having poor numbers is indeed not an indicator of a team's overall abilities or efforts. Who am I to say what a different team's limitations and circumstances are. However, I worry about the long term success and sustainability of a team (any team, not specifically yours) that is unable to complete one of the simplest and most straightforward tasks required in the whole scope of this program.

I used to think that a certain team's viewpoint of "if there's things that your team is not good at, and others are, you need to work harder" was kind of rude and arrogant, because it makes the presumption that some teams don't work hard, but then I discovered that the statement is very applicable to reality, and life in general, and I'm beginning to see its value. Success comes from hard work, in every detail of everything you do. That's the bottom line.

Samuel, if your team anticipates having another struggle with creating numbers, I would like to personally extend an offer to vinyl cut team 2869's numbers, free of charge, and I'll mail them to you on my dime. I'll do whatever font and size you want, and even a custom logo graphic of the number if it's a modified font artwork.

And to steer this thread back on track with the original discussion of solutions, vinyl cutting is indeed one nice way to do it with a professional outcome. Laser cutting of plastic may also be an option, as may be CNC router cutting. (sorry for the derailment OP)