Robot Numbering, Attractive Solutions?

[Lil' Lavery]

A great deal of success also comes from one's situation in life as well. While the idea that some schools may be better served by participating in lower demand programs, it's is not necessarily a reflection of their work ethic or skill (either during the build season or the off-season).

[magnets]

How are vertical numbers ambiguous?

If you saw
1
1
1
4

and had to figure out the team number, how could you not realize that it was 1114? What other team number could be determined from this sequence of numbers?

[Abhishek R]

I've been trying to think of a good solution to this as well, but my head hits a wall every time I try. It's hard to be creative with this when the rules are so strict.

I do think if you chamfer the corners of the plate you print your numbers on (basically round them off), they will look a lot better and cleaner, making the numbers look more professional than an afterthought. A bit similar to my bumper philosophy, rounded bumpers just look very nice (though bumpers like 1114's in the past have looked very sharp with those clean cut angles!).

[RamZ]

This is one of the times having a low digit team number comes in handy, I'm sure we'll just add a big "4" to the panels we always have on our 'bots for sponsors logos, etc.

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

The reflectorized ones are fun....try taking a flash picture of a robot that has them

I wonder if they would interfere with another robot's vision tracking...

[MrJohnston]

I really don't see the numbering rules as that big a deal. It makes perfect sense to have some sort of uniform way for bumpers to be displayed and there are many ways to put some simple black and white numbers on a robot.... It may not be "pretty," but that does not mean that it's truly ugly. Make the numbers sharp and clean and it will look fine - even on a beautiful robot.

Heck, if you're really worried about pretty your robot is, make the numbers easily removable so that you only have to look at them when you are competing. When the robot is on display, doing outreach, etc., take the numbers off. After all, most Olympic athletes don't wear their numbers when they aren't participating in events....And, during events, I am certain they do care about the way their uniforms look.

We're required to have black and white numbers? Whatever - no problem.

[s_forbes]

When I first saw the little Vex number plates that were issued to teams, my first thought was "Wow, standardized numbers, this looks like a professional kind of competition!"

I really thought that teams would have been happier that we're not required to stick big red or blue bumpers all the way around the robot and have this numbering system instead. A black and white number plate is much less intrusive on a teams color schemes than bumpers.

Originally Posted by RamZ

This is one of the times having a low digit team number comes in handy, I'm sure we'll just add a big "4" to the panels we always have on our 'bots for sponsors logos, etc.

"IV"? The rules don't specify that they need to be Arabic numerals, it just has to be unambiguous.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by RamZ

This is one of the times having a low digit team number comes in handy, I'm sure we'll just add a big "4" to the panels we always have on our 'bots for sponsors logos, etc.

That's not legal, vertical number is ambiguous

[RamZ]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

That's not legal, vertical number is ambiguous

Aw, back to the drawing board.

In all seriousness, we asked on the Q&A if we could use our logo, as it's just a 4 with a phoenix over it, but didn't get quite a clear answer. We may end up making two panels per side, one with the logo, one without, or just go with the number alone.

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by RamZ

but didn't get quite a clear answer.

I think "There is no provision in this rule for additional design or coloring in that space." is a clear enough answer.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by RamZ

Aw, back to the drawing board.

In all seriousness, we asked on the Q&A if we could use our logo, as it's just a 4 with a phoenix over it, but didn't get quite a clear answer. We may end up making two panels per side, one with the logo, one without, or just go with the number alone.

consist of numerals at least 3.5 in. high, at least 0.5 in. in stroke width, and be black in color with a white background extending at least 1 in.
from the edges of the numbering,

Consider the black numbers and the white space around them as untouchable - no other lines, colors, or images may be in that area. That's what I think the GDC is saying.

[RamZ]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

I think "There is no provision in this rule for additional design or coloring in that space." is a clear enough answer.

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Consider the black numbers and the white space around them as untouchable - no other lines, colors, or images may be in that area. That's what I think the GDC is saying.

Yup, I reread that and realized what they were saying, thanks! I assume we'll just go with a big 4.

[glennword]

There is no reason you can't just put the required numbers on your robot in an inconspicuous manner/position and then add your big, custom, flashy, neon, led-backlit, Las Vegas style, properly branded team numbers in a more prominent, noticeable location.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by glennword

There is no reason you can't just put the required numbers on your robot in an inconspicuous manner/position and then add your big, custom, flashy, neon, led-backlit, Las Vegas style, properly branded team numbers in a more prominent, noticeable location.

Yea, but then you have some good looking numbers and branding, and then elsewhere on your robot you have clashing, generic numbers. Looks tacky, imo.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

Having a common standard (horizontal numbers, black on white, minimum size) allows inspectors, refs, FTAs, judges and every one else to nearly instantly identify a robot's number. Previous years bumper rules attempted to do the same...

I think this is what bothers me most about the rule. If nearly instant identification is the point, and I agree it is, this regime does very little for me as a referee. As someone who remembers the pre-numbers-on-bumpers days, I remember how much faster I'll identify this guy, this guy, or this guy than one of these three. Try it. (No offense anyone; nice robots.)

This is because rapid identification is less about size and color than it is about location and ascetics (there's probably a more technical terms for the latter). Bumper numbers aren't useful to me because they're red or blue or are quite so tightly regulated by shape and color*. They're useful because I know the team number is going to be the only thing between 2"-10" off the ground of each robot. (As expected, this gets harder with intakes dropping down--recognition is slowed even if the number itself isn't covered.)

I predict that multiple times this year I will ref three same-alliance robots with cluttered, light-colored sponsor panels or numbers otherwise buried under glaring lights/awkwardly placed geometry. If somewhere in that cluttered, white-ish robot are (4) 3.5" high numbers with 1" of white space, you can bet I'm gonna be struggling with it. Just be grateful they don't have us tracking possessions by robot like 2014, or as coaches we'd all pull out even more hair than we did then. Which is saying something.


This is actually true in some of the other examples you cited. At least at the events I inspect, pit signs are not always in the same place in the every pit. Whether or not they are, sometimes they're also absorbed into a similarly colored sponsor banner or the like. It takes longer, sometimes much longer, to identify these teams, even though the sign itself looks exactly the same. I've also been a race volunteer, and when people move those bibs (e.g. to their thigh), identification is relatively much slower.


*That said, I understand the need for strictness to avoid loopholes. And even this year, FIRST is clearly trying. Without being a marketing/ascetics expert, I have trouble formulating a rule that would satisfy both my concerns and those others have mentioned. Anyone have an idea?