2015 Week Zero Lessons Learned

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

Proven Wrong

I saw that right before I posted, actually. Yes that was a very cool design and I can't wait to see it live in action.

So the top 25 will be fun to watch, as usual. But I prefer games in which the whole season was entertaining, and also very easy to explain to our non-FIRST spectators.

Things I hated most about Lunacy was the over-emphasized human players, the incredibly complex scoring to explain, and the themed game concept. This game has all of that going for it PLUS no defense/interaction, and no wins/losses. Not even close to being like a sport.

Again, hope I'm proven wrong admittedly I have before). But if the matches I see in two weeks are like the ones I watched today, I will be falling asleep.

The game is just not for me. I prefer the edge-of-your-seat intensity of some previous games. Others may not enjoy that as much. We'll see.

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by Alex2614

I saw that right before I posted, actually. Yes that was a very cool design and I can't wait to see it live in action.

So the top 25 will be fun to watch, as usual. But I prefer games in which the whole season was entertaining, and also very easy to explain to our non-FIRST spectators.

Things I hated most about Lunacy was the over-emphasized human players, the incredibly complex scoring to explain, and the themed game concept. This game has all of that going for it PLUS no defense/interaction, and no wins/losses. Not even close to being like a sport.

Again, hope I'm proven wrong admittedly I have before). But if the matches I see in two weeks are like the ones I watched today, I will be falling asleep.

The game is just not for me. I prefer the edge-of-your-seat intensity of some previous games. Others may not enjoy that as much. We'll see.

I generally agree with everything you said. I joined FRC in 2013 and my first FIRST experiance was in 2012. I have been incredibly lucky in the sense that the last 3 games have been amongst the best 3 games IMO. I more or less posted that because I was simply that blown away by 148.

While I'm awake at 2:30 AM I don't see why I can't also recap my experience at the Centurion-KnightKrawler week 0 event:
-The field is way smaller than I anticipated (not actually but the totes and massive robots do a pretty good job of cluttering what little area we started with)
- I misread the game in a sense that I assumed most teams would design their robots to play nice with the chute door, yes, chute door. At the event I attended it seemed as though the opposite was true. Most teams were built for the landfill and seemed to have difficulty with what I thought was the easier way to acquire totes.
- The difference between active mechanisms and passive mechanisms for acquiring totes is night and day. Active mechanisms just worked so much more efficiently
- Robots seemed to be a lot more "together" than they were at the same time last year. I don't know if that's a result of an easier challenge or some other factor that I don't currently have the mental capacity to think about.
- Big robots (they are almost all big) need to be careful in their maneuvers. Driver practice is always important, but I think it's integral to the success of a team this year, more so than usual.

Other points that have already been covered: Coopertition is massive, liter is unexpectedly valuable (at least unexpected for me) etc.

[MooreteP]

Originally Posted by Alex2614

Not even close to being like a sport.

Again, hope I'm proven wrong admittedly I have before). But if the matches I see in two weeks are like the ones I watched today, I will be falling asleep.

This is like a sport, if you consider skiing, golf, or figure skating. In these sports, you cumulative performances increase or decrease your rankings.

There is also vying for a playoff position as a season or competition winds down based upon your remaining match performances. This happens in Hockey, Basketball, Baseball, Football (American & everyone else), the Olympics, and...need I go on?

Admittedly, this is not what we are used to in FIRST, but it adds a meta-game to our strategy and scouting sessions that will hurt our brains, but make them stronger.

Aerial Assist had similar responses last year in Week Zero.

You may want to try caffeine or dancing to forestall your soporific inclinations.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Alex2614

This game is incredibly boring to watch... but I think most of us suspected that. Hopefully I'm proven wrong in the coming weeks.

After watching the scrimmage yesterday this has the potential to be the worst game in my 13 years of FIRST. Then I saw 148's robot and gave my opinion a temporary restraining order from judgement.

[jojoguy10]

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

Nice to see things working in the Pacific Northwest! Good Luck to your team this season!

You guys as well!

[XaulZan11]

I think many early season matches will be "won" by alliances doing stacks of 1 or 2 totes while their opponents work on tall stacks they cannot cap with a rc bin efficiently. A stack of 6 high looks really impressive, but is worth the same amount of points as just pushing 6 totes an any platform.

[Boltman]

- Not much time to do a lot so cooperation will likely be key for max points.
- Better to have a robot designed not to have to be perfectly precise with tote or bin grabbing
- Watch that you don't knock down stacks and waste time, be efficient.
- You can fairly easily load a bin with a noodle from a human station.
- A four stack with bin and noodle can be done in under 1 minute.
- Noodle throwing is at best hard to score.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by Alex2614

I saw that right before I posted, actually. Yes that was a very cool design and I can't wait to see it live in action.

So the top 25 will be fun to watch, as usual. But I prefer games in which the whole season was entertaining, and also very easy to explain to our non-FIRST spectators.

Things I hated most about Lunacy was the over-emphasized human players, the incredibly complex scoring to explain, and the themed game concept. This game has all of that going for it PLUS no defense/interaction, and no wins/losses. Not even close to being like a sport.

Again, hope I'm proven wrong admittedly I have before). But if the matches I see in two weeks are like the ones I watched today, I will be falling asleep.

The game is just not for me. I prefer the edge-of-your-seat intensity of some previous games. Others may not enjoy that as much. We'll see.

This sums up my feelings exactly.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by Boltman

- A four stack with bin and noodle can be done in under 1 minute.

By a select few teams.

[Joseph1825]

I didn't get to go to a week 0 event this year, so I have a question for people who did. What would you say the MCC* is this year? and, what do you think it will take to get in the top 8?


*MCC = minimum competitive concept, or the simplest design that could make eliminations at almost every regional.

[MrForbes]

We had some 6 stacks topple at the AZ scrimmage yesterday...that was fun to watch. But painful to watch when the robot goes over with them.

I wasn't much surprised by what I saw. I'm glad we made an ungainly universal arm and claw that can cap a stack of 5 with a tote or container, and can also flip over a container if needed, or just put it on the stack sideways. I think that will be a standout feature at one of our regionals.

Getting totes from the landfills is not easy, we're going to need to get on the field early on Thursday and get some practice.

Not much going in in autonomous in most matches....which also didn't surprise me.

Hopefully the litter thing will get figured out by week 2. I really don't know what to do with litter.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

-Drivers will have to make those robots dance!

Or programmers. We aren't there yet, but we hope to have a significant number of programmed "muscle memory" routines in time for Bayou on week 4. Our head coach's catch phrase for this season has been "Do the Thing!" Now that both the competition (Peabody) and practice (Atlas) 'bots are done, our programmers are working hard so that our robot can earn the nickname Zhu Li.

[Bryan Herbst]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

One more thought about Week Zero Events from the Suffield Shakedown:

With the new control system, we weren't able to use even FMS Lite.

A decision was made to do 5:00 minute matches, we scrapped the schedule, and basically did a filler line approach. Some Robots were on the field every 15 minutes.

We used the FMS lite just fine in MN. This guide to running a week zero in 2015 has helpful information on a few different options for setting it up.

I do agree that doing it without a schedule is the way to go- it is very difficult to create a schedule when teams want to spend the time improving mechanisms or testing out code in their pits. We just let them come and sign up for a slot in a match whenever they are ready.

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

2. We had exactly '0' RC grapplers work (although 3130 had the apparatus - just didn't get to see it work). So if you are seeing success in your area, that means there is hope!

2052 has an RC manipulator- the one time the drivers picked one up they turned too quickly and it fell off. That mechanism is currently being improved

Originally Posted by Alex2614

This game is incredibly boring to watch... but I think most of us suspected that. Hopefully I'm proven wrong in the coming weeks.

In my experience, Week Zero events are boring to watch in general. This time last year, people were saying the exact same thing about Aerial Assist. Many teams don't use week zero events to compete at their highest level- they are primarily there to iterate on their designs. I am going to reserve judgement for a few more weeks.

[Wayne TenBrink]

Originally Posted by Tanis

In my experience, Week Zero events are boring to watch in general. This time last year, people were saying the exact same thing about Aerial Assist. Many teams don't use week zero events to compete at their highest level- they are primarily there to iterate on their designs. I am going to reserve judgement for a few more weeks.

Good point. Its a problem when a "well played" match is more boring to watch than a "poorly played" one. From what I have seen so far, toppling stacks are the highlight of most matches. If history is any guide, teams will get better and the game will develop in positive ways as the season progresses.

[The_ShamWOW88]

Attending the Week 0 event held by 166 Chop Shop in Merrimack I've found that:

- Teamwork is key
- Throwing the noodles is going to be far more lucrative than initially thought, at least for the initial competitions. (and they're a pain to around)
- Loading/creating stacks from the human player zone is going to be difficult (unless specifically designed for it)
- 2:15 is not nearly as much time as we'd like to have....

Going to be an interesting year, not my favorite but if we see more reveals like 148's, Champs is going to be wildly entertaining...