Solenoid LEDs not on / VEX Base Leak

[popnbrown]

We're having trouble getting the solenoids to work. The compressor works fine and is running, but the solenoids are not lighting up nor working.

I think the solenoids are wiring up fine, and we seem to have lost our multimeter....so I can't tell if there's any voltage going.


We're using the VEX Solenoid Base Mount - http://www.vexrobotics.com/solenoids-and-manifolds.html, and this also seems to be leaking. I presume it's because the solenoids are not getting power and are not blocking out the air.

I would love to show you wiring, but it's incredibly messy that even I have trouble following it sometimes. The connections were initially not weak, the solenoid wires popped out at a slight tug but we re-secured them.


Firmware for the PCM is at 1.62, it's reading no faults, and showing all the Solenoids as off.

I'm attaching our Begin.vi and our Teleop.vi.

[Chris_Ely]

Originally Posted by popnbrown

We're using the VEX Solenoid Base Mount - http://www.vexrobotics.com/solenoids-and-manifolds.html, and this also seems to be leaking. I presume it's because the solenoids are not getting power and are not blocking out the air.

I would love to show you wiring, but it's incredibly messy that even I have trouble following it sometimes. The connections were initially not weak, the solenoid wires popped out at a slight tug but we re-secured them.

If your manifold is leaking, you have a plumbing problem. How do you have it plumbed? Pressure should go into the port labeled P, and your cylinders should be connected to ports A and B. EA and EB are the exhaust, so leave these open. Does every fitting have Teflon tape, and are they tight? Put soapy water on the fittings, and look for bubbles to find out where the leaks are.
Try to clean up your wiring; diagnosing spaghetti at a competition is not fun, trust me.
Are you using single or double solenoids?
Unfortunately, it is difficult to diagnose problems we can't see. Can you post pictures, even if things are messy?

[popnbrown]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ely

If your manifold is leaking, you have a plumbing problem. How do you have it plumbed? Pressure should go into the port labeled P, and your cylinders should be connected to ports A and B. EA and EB are the exhaust, so leave these open.

Yeah, we got advice on this base from another thread. You can see the BaseTubing image, the first picture, attached below

Originally Posted by Chris_Ely

Does every fitting have Teflon tape, and are they tight?

All those that have threads have Teflon tape.

Originally Posted by Chris_Ely

Put soapy water on the fittings, and look for bubbles to find out where the leaks are.

This is the current plan, I'll also double check the Teflon.

Originally Posted by Chris_Ely

Try to clean up your wiring; diagnosing spaghetti at a competition is not fun, trust me.

Fortunately, this is just our test platform. Unfortunately, it's not even fun diagnosing it right now. But the only way to learn is to do it wrong, and realize it's wrong. I hope there's at least one lesson learned about wiring here.

Originally Posted by Chris_Ely

Are you using single or double solenoids?

Single solenoids. SMC ones from VEX

Originally Posted by Chris_Ely

Unfortunately, it is difficult to diagnose problems we can't see. Can you post pictures, even if things are messy?

I attached a close up of the PCM but it's not really helpfu this is the second picturel. The BaseWiring (third picture) is the better picture. You can actually attempt to follow the wires.

[orangemoore]

Is your PCM jumper set to 12V or 24V?

[Chris_Ely]

It's a little hard to tell, but it looks like the voltage selection jumper is set to 24V. The solenoids from VEX are all 12V. Switching the jumper should fix the problem.

[popnbrown]

I swapped it to 24V after posting this. It was originally 12V.

It was still not working when 12V.

[Mark McLeod]

Concur on the PCM 24v jumper. Those are 12v solenoids.

Are the LEDs for the individual solenoid 0 output on the PCM lighting up when button 5 is pressed?

[orangemoore]

What is the CAN ID of your PCM? Does it match the one referenced in the code? I think it should be 0.

[popnbrown]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

Are the LEDs for the individual solenoid 0 output on the PCM lighting up when button 5 is pressed?

Well. that would be why. We were thinking they were supposed to light up indicating the Solenoid was being powered or it was initialized. I'll test out the buttons and see if that works.

[popnbrown]

Originally Posted by orangemoore

What is the CAN ID of your PCM? Does it match the one referenced in the code? I think it should be 0.

It's 0. We don't reference it in code. Using LabVIEW and I didn't think we had to reference it in code. Following the Solenoid example here - http://www.team358.org/files/program...view/index.php

I'm going to test pressing buttons and seeing it light up.

[popnbrown]

General update, we're finding the solenoid base mount to be leaking quite a bit, from where the ports of the mount We unplugged the regulator and solenoid and just capped the other end, and it was finally starting to build some pressure. There was still some leaks, and it's because the Teflon on the threaded joints wasn't looking great and we didn't actually tighten them all the way.

[popnbrown]

Originally Posted by popnbrown

Well. that would be why. We were thinking they were supposed to light up indicating the Solenoid was being powered or it was initialized. I'll test out the buttons and see if that works.

Solenoid lights are working when pressed. Thanks for the clarification Mark.

Now to fix the leak.

[cglrcng]

Begin by removing all the black tubes 1-by-1 from the block and check for flush tube end cuts (square), tube ends, trim as necessary properly, and re-insert them, push all the way into the connector & pull or tug out to make sure they are fully seated properly...I can see the bottom second one in pic#3 is not all the way in, see how the connector is higher than all the rest nearby. *That should not stop the lights from working on the individual sol's, but minimum air pressure is needed to actually make them fire. No doubt in my mind that port is leaking much air.

Will the system currently hold stored air for say 15 or 30 minutes or more if you pump it up to 60~100PSI without leaking down much? If not, get that right first. Start at the compressor and find the leaks first, 1 connection at a time. Once it does, try overnight. Pump it up, turn off robot power, watch gauges for pressure bleed down.

I'm sure you already found that speed controller in the pics w/ only the ground attached and the positive not attached any longer upper left in pic #1.....Looks like it (the hot), is in your fingers. And need a bit more insulation tape on the PDB connectors main power connections (IMPORTANT not to see any of the silver connectors there). Also suggest blowing that bot out w/ some compressed air to clean out the debris a lil'.

Addition: I just looked at Pic#1 and the second black tube in the top row also isn't seated all the way in either.

[cglrcng]

Also, if you have more tubing avail., I would replace both the inlet and outflow tubing to/from the regulator (and maybe even the connectors to straights from 90's maybe) w/ a little longer tubes as they are pulling the connectors off center which can also lead both (all 3~Reg. in/reg. out/ & block in connectors to leak.

That yellow locking collar on the regulator is half way up, half way down in the pic....Up to adjust regulator pressure, down to lock. Get it into 1 or the other positions also...right side is down/left up in the pic. When it is in the adjustment position it leaks very slightly on purpose to help you adjust the regulator pressure so after adjusting it, always lock it.

Can you attach a few more pictures?

Start at the compressor and work back to the block please. Getting the High Pressure side completed first and holding air (always insert a pressure relief valve in it), dividing the system into sections, and then working towards the low pressure section 2nd. seems to work best when making sure the system doesn't leak.

[popnbrown]

Some more pictures. Sorry some of them are crappy quality. Let me know if there are close-ups of anything specific you'd like.

We've been re-doing some of the tubing because it got frustrating trying to debug things would get pulled out.

So we had a leak right out from the compressor, and then a leak near the release valve and the high pressure gauge. The air tanks all seem to be good even though the one T joint seems a little iffy.


We were able to get both the High Pressure side working, although I'd like to run a test to see how the pressure may bleed, so we'll do that.

We also just setup a low pressure side with the outlet of the regulator just sent to a release valve, and that also seemed to build pressure, although it was going to about 40 PSI, and would keep going while it was still at 40.


So with the solenoid base, the orange connectors on the base being close to each other means that it is fit better than when the orange connectors are farther apart?