Team 1678's 4 RC Autonomous

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Did you watch the week 0 streams?

Most teams, during the seeding rounds, will struggle to make 1 stack.

Let's check the scoreboard on this one... 1678 is 2 for 2 in Einstein trips from the 1 spot the last two seasons. I trust their judgement.

Week 0 events aren't usually a valid baseline for the year. Top teams don't go to them, and the teams that do aren't generally ready.

I'm confidant many Einstein alliances can hit 6 stacks.... but they DON'T NEED to if they have the 4 center containers. Some simple math shows that if the other alliance only has 3 containers, you don't need to score all 7 you control to likely win (I'll leave this exact calculation as an exercise to the reader).

I'm certain 1678 understands they are less likely to seed 1st if they do this in auto every seeding match... but I'm also certain they have this all factored in.

Small minded thinking won't get you to Einstein, you need to think big.

It's frustrating to see so much negativity in response to such an awesome team, posting such an awesome feature, that has some awesome technical difficulty to accomplish.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Let's check the scoreboard on this one... 1678 is 2 for 2 in Einstein trips from the 1 spot the last two seasons. I trust their judgement.

Week 0 events aren't usually a valid baseline for the year. Top teams don't go to them, and the teams that do aren't generally ready.

I'm confidant many Einstein alliances can hit 6 stacks.... but they DON'T NEED to if they have the 4 center containers. Some simple math shows that if the other alliance only has 3 containers, you don't need to score all 7 you control to likely win (I'll leave this exact calculation as an exercise to the reader).

I'm certain 1678 understands they are less likely to seed 1st if they do this in auto every seeding match... but I'm also certain they have this all factored in.

Small minded thinking won't get you to Einstein, you need to think big.

It's frustrating to see so much negativity in response to such an awesome team, posting such an awesome feature, that has some awesome technical difficulty to accomplish.

100% on point. 1678s goal is Einstein and they clearly built a strategy and robot around that. Those who are putting it down don't understand the upper level strategies and nuances that comes with those type of goals and aspirations.

Definitely looking forward to seeing this robot in person. Seems to be 2826s perfect partner. Hope to play together at champs.

[Mockapapella]

Whenever I see one of these posts about amazing robots I get ticked and jealous. A bunch of these unique ideas are something we thought of in brainstorming. In this one's case, however, it's doing what we set out to do but with 4 instead of 2. I suppose my only hope if we go up against this is that their design is more passive than ours (ergo us winning a tug of war if it ever comes to it).

With all that being said, great job. I'm excited to see this thing in action.

[bEdhEd]

Originally Posted by Mockapapella

Whenever I see one of these posts about amazing robots I get ticked and jealous. A bunch of these unique ideas are something we thought of in brainstorming. In this one's case, however, it's doing what we set out to do but with 4 instead of 2. I suppose my only hope if we go up against this is that their design is more passive than ours (ergo us winning a tug of war if it ever comes to it).

With all that being said, great job. I'm excited to see this thing in action.

We were just like that this year too. We had some students over at our local week 0 scrimmage, and 1678's bot was so similar to one of our initial plans. There were also ideas to get the 4 containers in auto, but the team opted for maximum simplicity this year.

Great job guys, can't wait to get some matches in with you!

[Michael Hill]

It seems that some people aren't realizing that while this may not be hugely important in the qualification rounds, grabbing the RCs from the step as fast as possible will win Einstein. Autonomous is designed with the finals in mind (which I'm sure they will see multiple times this season).

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Small minded thinking won't get you to Einstein, you need to think big.

I think this is the key point here. 1678 is a high enough caliber team that they can design specifically to get to Einstein. I think the reason why individuals on this thread are so critical is because their teams have different goals, so they have trouble understanding why 1678 would pursue this design. Our team (like many others) did not design a robot to make it to Einstein this year, we designed our robot just to make it into the elimination rounds at our one event. If we go further, that's great, but that's not our goal.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

OK. I'll bite.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Let's check the scoreboard on this one... 1678 is 2 for 2 in Einstein trips from the 1 spot the last two seasons. I trust their judgement.

1678 is not 'most teams'. The quote I was questioning is that each team will make 2 stacks. I said nothing about 1678.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Week 0 events aren't usually a valid baseline for the year. Top teams don't go to them, and the teams that do aren't generally ready.

Top teams don't go? I doubt you've been to suffield then. Week 0 is a good indicator of the 'average' team, not the top tier teams. But the quote I was bringing into question was that each robot will make 2 stacks.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I'm confidant many Einstein alliances can hit 6 stacks.... but they DON'T NEED to if they have the 4 center containers. Some simple math shows that if the other alliance only has 3 containers, you don't need to score all 7 you control to likely win (I'll leave this exact calculation as an exercise to the reader).

'Most teams' are not Einstein alliances. Simple math shows that if teams have issues making a single stack, then grabbing all the RCs is useless.
In the eliminations things will obviously be different, but elimination teams are again not 'most teams'.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I'm certain 1678 understands they are less likely to seed 1st if they do this in auto every seeding match... but I'm also certain they have this all factored in.

Again, 1678 isn't most teams. I wish they were the 'average' team (as this would raise the level of competition), but they are not.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Small minded thinking won't get you to Einstein, you need to think big.

Personal attacks are not needed here. Please argue your facts.
... and it takes a LOT more than thinking big to get to Einstein. A lot more.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

It's frustrating to see so much negativity in response to such an awesome team, posting such an awesome feature, that has some awesome technical difficulty to accomplish.

My response was to a post about every team making 2 stacks. I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic.

Every team will not make 2 stacks every match. Especially not during the seeding matches. I doubt you will see many 6 stack matches (2 stacks per team) even in the playoffs.

My prediction: 50 points will win 90% of the week 1 seeding matches.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

My prediction: 50 points will win 90% of the week 1 seeding matches.

0 points will win 100% of seeding matches.

Thinking about this game within the confines of previous years will limit you.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Gregor

0 points will win 100% of seeding matches.

Thinking about this game within the confines of previous years will limit you.

Well, realistically, if you win over the other teams more often than they win over you, you are probably making a lot of points.
Sure, winning doesn't matter if you make points... but that's like every year (scoring points, anyways). Plus, playing for eliminations is wiser than not, depending on your goals. Can denial will be important as long as you can stack decently well.
It's not like anyone is going to design a robot to play hard defense this year... at least I hope not.

EDIT: Team 3310 (Warhawks) have a pretty effective counter to this and any other 4-can grabbers: speed. Any robot that can flip something down fast and drive backwards could screw up 1678 before their tape measures reach the cans.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

My prediction: 50 points will win 90% of the week 1 seeding matches.

Not commenting on the rest of your post, but remember that out scoring the other alliance on the field doesnt matter until the finals this year, and there is no winning of seeding matches.

Edit: Gregor beat me to it

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Personal attacks are not needed here. Please argue your facts.
... and it takes a LOT more than thinking big to get to Einstein. A lot more.

973 probably knows a thing or two about what it takes to get to Einstein...

What the average team can do is nearly irrelevant in terms of this strategy. It is entirely designed around eliminations.

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by Cory

What the average team can do is nearly irrelevant in terms of this strategy. It is entirely designed around eliminations.

Agreed. As the number of teams/alliances in the competition decreases the value of the cans on the step increases exponentially, since you are effectively taking away possible points from the opponent. Having a method to take the cans from the middle is an exceptionally valuable asset and something that, even if the team isn't a captain, will almost assuredly get them picked.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Gregor

0 points will win 100% of seeding matches.

Thinking about this game within the confines of previous years will limit you.

You are correct. I stand corrected. My point was (if very poorly worded) that in the seeding matches, average scores of 50 or so FOR THE ALLIANCE will get teams into the playoffs.

Originally Posted by TDav540

Agreed. As the number of teams/alliances in the competition decreases the value of the cans on the step increases exponentially, since you are effectively taking away possible points from the opponent. Having a method to take the cans from the middle is an exceptionally valuable asset and something that, even if the team isn't a captain, will almost assuredly get them picked.

Taking away point of your opponent is only marginally effective until the finals.

During the seeding matches I believe that taking the RCs from the step will only waste time because unless your alliance can make more than 3 stacks as they score nothing unless part of a stack.

In addition, bringing the RCs on to your side of the field adds to an already cluttered / compressed field. During the playoffs this changes ... and that (if they make it) is where 1678 will shine.

[Boltman]

I wonder if tug-o-war in auto on RC's triggers a Violation on the robot that extends past wall (perhaps the other if there is contention). That might dissuade teams from doing that RC auto grab. Once a robot wins the initial tug (gaining ownership) the other robot would immediately be in violation for touching an object on other side. If it goes back the other way other robot in may be in violation also if not judged initially. Going to be very interesting to see what happens there.