Team 1678's 4 RC Autonomous

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

If you doubt it, just look at how fast 148 can create stacks of totes.

I would if 148 included any actual footage of them creating a stack from start to finish in real time.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by smistthegreat

I think this is a likely scenario, if one robot grabs high and another goes low. I would say that zip ties would break before robots let go, which leads to an interesting rules question: Can you score a can without the lid?

In your scenario above, I believe that one robot will be laying on the step.

[cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Aaron

I've been trying unsuccessfully all season to convince my team of the importance of getting the containers....


If this is legit and reliable, you guys are going to go very far my friends.

Look at it this way...Since you have been unsuccessful in convincing your team on the importance of the snatching of the 4 Shelf RC's...If you are playing on an alliance with Team 1678...You won't have anything to worry about! (Except maybe stacking grey totes just as fast as you possibly CAN!)...And, if you are playing on an alliance against Team 1678....You definitely....Won't have anything to worry about. (Except stacking more totes just as fast as you can...without more than 3 CANS!) LOL.
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There are 16 total contested game pcs. in Recycle rush on that shelf. And 48/+6/(+those additional 16 contested)+10 Litter Ea., leaving 64 other useable game pcs. on EACH SIDE OF THE FIELD (situated both on the field & off).

Snatching those 4 are very important (or CAN be...yes the Pun again was intentional), IF DONE carefully, consistantly, and you can use them consistantly to multiply existing points concerning stacked scoring grey totes.

They are a means to an end...They are not an end to a means alone, and by & of themselves. They also multiply the work involved to properly score them, so they better be a part of an overall better plan. Using them properly is always going to be the key, though denying the opposing Alliance the opportunity to own them, & any chance to score with them, is of high game/scoring importance! They will still create a different "field littering scenario" at least until used to score.

It still remains to be seen how "auto tug of wars" between robots that cannot actually think for themselves during those important 15 seconds at least (beyond the initial human programming), will be won or lost or even fought, w/ what regularity & difficulty, and what resulting damage to game pcs. &/or robots may regularly result, & possibly affecting the rest of the time available in teleop.

How many of those "contested auto period Shelf RC wars" will actually continue on into the teleop time periods, and how much valuable time will be used in the end in the hope of winning the battles..."Who will let go first in heavily contested battles where both are locked on and just won't let go."

No Consistant or reliable "4 Shelf RC Snatcher" like the video seems to show at work (and I certainly believe that is one), could possibly be left (even if not in the top 8 qualifyers at any event), unpicked after the very first seed picks....You could not allow another team the opportunity or option of ending up with them...Period! They would/will be in high demand....But I believe they would be in the high top 8 "if consistant" anywhere, & at any event this FRC year.

All remains to be seen soon enough, and right up through the last match at the championships! (I predict at least 2 such~ 4 RC Snatchers will be present in the 2015 Championship final match!) Let the best bot win.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by cglrcng

No Consistant or reliable "4 Shelf RC Snatcher" like the video seems to show at work (and I certainly believe that is one), could possibly be left (even if not in the top 8 qualifyers at any event), unpicked after the very first seed picks....You could not allow another team the opportunity or option of ending up with them...Period! They would/will be in high demand....But I believe they would be in the high top 8 "if consistant" anywhere, & at any event this FRC year.

I suppose they "might" get picked assuming 1678 doesn't end up the number one seed in their division again.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

I suppose they "might" get picked assuming 1678 doesn't end up the number one seed in their division again.

The nature of qualification rounds and this strategy might hold them back unless they have top-tier execution to get the cans they possess maximum value (I'm sure they know that). That being said, an effective 4 can grabber is the rising tide that can lift all boats, meaning it could probably decline from the 3 or 4 seed and still create the strongest alliance on the division.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

The nature of qualification rounds and this strategy might hold them back unless they have top-tier execution to get the cans they possess maximum value (I'm sure they know that). That being said, an effective 4 can grabber is the rising tide that can lift all boats, meaning it could probably decline from the 3 or 4 seed and still create the strongest alliance on the division.

Do keep in mind that a chokehold strategy has significantly reduced value until the finals. They need to score those RC to raise their average score to advance out of the QFs and SFs. The reduce opponent's maximum possible score will still have some value, but reducing one opponent's score holds less value than raising your score relative to all opponents.

I don't doubt that most Champs elimination alliances will have the ability to score multiple RCs, but it will still require careful alliance construction and good execution every match. For as mechanically impressive as 71 was in 2002 was, their chokehold was easier to execute at an alliance level then the chokehold is this year.

[barn34]

Originally Posted by Boltman

Is it just me but do you even see a need for those four containers? Still have to stack them and 2:15 is not a lot of time. At most I saw 2 bins stacked today not 6 or 7....not a lot of time. Plus the bins will be on their sides most likely eliminating many robots from using them at that point.

Video is cool but how much it does it really change the game for the alliance with that capability..who knows guess we'll find out soon enough. Still way cool.

um, this game is played with 3 robots per team, right? if each robot on your alliance can make 2 stacks topped with RCs, that's 6 RCs with a spare one left over (which won't be left over, trust me). those cans are the critical lynchpin to elimination powerhouse alliances, for sure.

plus, if they're on your side of the field, they're not being scored by the opposition on the other side...this is truly the only defensive strategy possible this year.


Oh, and of course, awesome job guys! apparently all the bins belong to the Circuits. all of them. there is no escape. looking forward to seeing the full bot in action.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by barn34

um, this game is played with 3 robots per team, right? if each robot on your alliance can make 2 stacks topped with RCs, that's 6 RCs with a spare one left over (which won't be left over, trust me). those cans are the critical lynchpin to elimination powerhouse alliances, for sure.

plus, if they're on your side of the field, they're not being scored by the opposition on the other side...this is truly the only defensive strategy possible this year.


Oh, and of course, awesome job guys! apparently all the bins belong to the Circuits. all of them. there is no escape. looking forward to seeing the full bot in action.

Did you watch the week 0 streams?

Most teams, during the seeding rounds, will struggle to make 1 stack.

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Did you watch the week 0 streams?

Most teams, during the seeding rounds, will struggle to make 1 stack.

In my time in FRC, week 0 has never been an accurate representation of your average match. MAYBE some of the lower ends of weeks 1 and 2 will resemble the best of week 0, but I would never judge the capabilities of teams based on some week 0 streams.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Did you watch the week 0 streams?

Most teams, during the seeding rounds, will struggle to make 1 stack.

I tend to agree..those week 0 events were 5 minutes not 2:15 I don't see those 4 RC's having a huge effect offensively due to the time it takes to stack. only real offensive advantage I see is placement near scoring platform but that is somewhat negated by the cans likely being on their side and creating more clutter.

Two totes and bin = 12 lets say 6 of those ....that's 72 points can be trumped by two 6-stacks (bin+ noodle) or Cooperation and say a couple stacks some with singe or double bins.

its a strategy but also that's 6 scoring item in 135 seconds or 22.5 seconds per scoring stack... consistently I don't see these stacks being created in 22.5 seconds.

Would like to be proven wrong. Awesome to see this though and negating those RC's from other alliance is great...so from the defensive standpoint 4 RC auto is huge...in denying the possibility from the other alliance

Lots of robots will likely have long arms to grab single RC's off walls...4 at a time is much better

1678 is built for Einstein hope to see that team there.. those 4 RC's will be the definite difference...since cooperative is out the door. Most awesome to see all 4 handled..amazing.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Did you watch the week 0 streams?

Most teams, during the seeding rounds, will struggle to make 1 stack.

Let's check the scoreboard on this one... 1678 is 2 for 2 in Einstein trips from the 1 spot the last two seasons. I trust their judgement.

Week 0 events aren't usually a valid baseline for the year. Top teams don't go to them, and the teams that do aren't generally ready.

I'm confidant many Einstein alliances can hit 6 stacks.... but they DON'T NEED to if they have the 4 center containers. Some simple math shows that if the other alliance only has 3 containers, you don't need to score all 7 you control to likely win (I'll leave this exact calculation as an exercise to the reader).

I'm certain 1678 understands they are less likely to seed 1st if they do this in auto every seeding match... but I'm also certain they have this all factored in.

Small minded thinking won't get you to Einstein, you need to think big.

It's frustrating to see so much negativity in response to such an awesome team, posting such an awesome feature, that has some awesome technical difficulty to accomplish.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Did you watch the week 0 streams?

Most teams, during the seeding rounds, will struggle to make 1 stack.

Don't forget that 1678 put on a clinic during week 1 last year.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Let's check the scoreboard on this one... 1678 is 2 for 2 in Einstein trips from the 1 spot the last two seasons. I trust their judgement.

Week 0 events aren't usually a valid baseline for the year. Top teams don't go to them, and the teams that do aren't generally ready.

I'm confidant many Einstein alliances can hit 6 stacks.... but they DON'T NEED to if they have the 4 center containers. Some simple math shows that if the other alliance only has 3 containers, you don't need to score all 7 you control to likely win (I'll leave this exact calculation as an exercise to the reader).

I'm certain 1678 understands they are less likely to seed 1st if they do this in auto every seeding match... but I'm also certain they have this all factored in.

Small minded thinking won't get you to Einstein, you need to think big.

It's frustrating to see so much negativity in response to such an awesome team, posting such an awesome feature, that has some awesome technical difficulty to accomplish.

100% on point. 1678s goal is Einstein and they clearly built a strategy and robot around that. Those who are putting it down don't understand the upper level strategies and nuances that comes with those type of goals and aspirations.

Definitely looking forward to seeing this robot in person. Seems to be 2826s perfect partner. Hope to play together at champs.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Small minded thinking won't get you to Einstein, you need to think big.

I think this is the key point here. 1678 is a high enough caliber team that they can design specifically to get to Einstein. I think the reason why individuals on this thread are so critical is because their teams have different goals, so they have trouble understanding why 1678 would pursue this design. Our team (like many others) did not design a robot to make it to Einstein this year, we designed our robot just to make it into the elimination rounds at our one event. If we go further, that's great, but that's not our goal.

[Mockapapella]

Whenever I see one of these posts about amazing robots I get ticked and jealous. A bunch of these unique ideas are something we thought of in brainstorming. In this one's case, however, it's doing what we set out to do but with 4 instead of 2. I suppose my only hope if we go up against this is that their design is more passive than ours (ergo us winning a tug of war if it ever comes to it).

With all that being said, great job. I'm excited to see this thing in action.