Division by average

[nuggetsyl]

So with double the divisions and the way this years game works I though the idea of making divisions by your average score would be a way to have equal division strength.
Example
Highest average division 1
2nd highest division 2
3rd highest division 3
An so on.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by nuggetsyl

So with double the divisions and the way this years game works I though the idea of making divisions by your average score would be a way to have equal division strength.
Example
Highest average division 1
2nd highest division 2
3rd highest division 3
An so on.

Partner quality, and therefore averages, are going to fluctuate wildly between events. This would put every team at MSC at the top, even if other teams are better (I know, that's pretty unlikely </MichiganBias> ).

Using averages at one event works because the match schedule is meant to equalise partner quality. There's no good way to do that between events (OPR is meant to do it, but doesn't do it particularly well).

[Taylor]

Basel,
I think he means at the CMP level. Teams would be pretty normalized there.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by nuggetsyl

So with double the divisions and the way this years game works I though the idea of making divisions by your average score would be a way to have equal division strength.
Example
Highest average division 1
2nd highest division 2
3rd highest division 3
An so on.

Can you please elaborate?

If you intend to have robots with similar average scores in the same division I think that is a very bad idea. It will stack (ha!) one division with very good robots and make Einstein boring because the best team in D2 will be 'worse' than the worst team in D1, it will be a gimme.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

Can you please elaborate?

If you intend to have robots with similar average scores in the same division I think that is a very bad idea. It will stack (ha!) one division with very good robots and make Einstein boring because the best team in D2 will be 'worse' than the worst team in D1, it will be a gimme.

I'd imagine it is more of a dealing of teams type thing. Take the top 8 averages and split them between the divisions, take the next 8 and do it again, repeat until no teams left.

It would probably pretty evenly split the divisions, even if the averages aren't a spectacular way to determine quality between events.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by Taylor

Basel,
I think he means at the CMP level. Teams would be pretty normalized there.

My interpretation was splitting teams into their divisions by average (probably serpentine, so the 8th and 9th highest averages in the same division), rather than whatever random algorithm FIRST has been using the past few years.

[Taylor]

I was the one misreading. I thought he meant as a way to compare the divisions to each other.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Taylor

I was the one misreading. I thought he meant as a way to compare the divisions to each other.

That's how I originally read it too.

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Basel A

My interpretation was splitting teams into their divisions by average (probably serpentine, so the 8th and 9th highest averages in the same division), rather than whatever random algorithm FIRST has been using the past few years.

Random?

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

I'd imagine it is more of a dealing of teams type thing. Take the top 8 averages and split them between the divisions, take the next 8 and do it again, repeat until no teams left.

It would probably pretty evenly split the divisions, even if the averages aren't a spectacular way to determine quality between events.

That makes more sense. Although anything besides 'random' will likely result in some teams trying to throw matches in order to try and get into a particular division.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

That makes more sense. Although anything besides 'random' will likely result in some teams trying to throw matches in order to try and get into a particular division.

They would have to know the average of ever other team at every other regional/division. I doubt anybody would be able to pull this off.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

Random?

Haha, sorry, it was an algorithm nobody could figure out for several years. I forgot they switched it up last year.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

They would have to know the average of ever other team at every other regional/division. I doubt anybody would be able to pull this off.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/

Every team would be able to pull it off given TBA's data.

Unless I'm missing something here...

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

http://www.thebluealliance.com/

Every team would be able to pull it off given TBA's data.

Unless I'm missing something here...

Being able to throw a match to get your average into the exact right spot while not knowing what other teams are doing in their matches is not really an easy task to accomplish. Now add in multiple teams trying to do this and it makes it almost impossible.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Being able to throw a match to get your average into the exact right spot while not knowing what other teams are doing in their matches is not really an easy task to accomplish. Now add in multiple teams trying to do this and it makes it almost impossible.

I don't disagree with you, but that won't stop some teams from trying, which is counter-productive to the competition.