Ohio going to Districts?

[smistthegreat]

Originally Posted by Dave Campbell

Here in Cincy - we are closer to most of the Indiana events than NE Ohio or Western PA, but will be extremely happy to compete as much as possible in any district or regional events - east or west, north or south! We really enjoy spending time with all of our FIRST friends in all parts of the world!

Therein lies the challenge with designing districts: Cincinnati is closer to Indiana than Cleveland, just like Cleveland is closer to Pittsburgh than Cincinnati, just like buffalo is (a lot) closer to Cleveland than NYC, just like NYC is much closer to all MAR than most other cities in New York. State lines often do not line up well with team distribution, and there are always teams that will get the short end of the stick. Ideally, once everyone moves to districts, teams will be free to choose the geographically closest events.

[matthewdenny]

We are in South East Ohio. I think we are the only team in this part of the state actually.currently we compete in Cleveland. It's quite the haul for us, about four hours in school transportation. I'm not sure we could afford twice that expense for a second regional of equal or greater distance. it would help greatly if the district was in Columbus or Athens.

[Jimmy Nichols]

Originally Posted by smistthegreat

Therein lies the challenge with designing districts: Cincinnati is closer to Indiana than Cleveland, just like Cleveland is closer to Pittsburgh than Cincinnati, just like buffalo is (a lot) closer to Cleveland than NYC, just like NYC is much closer to all MAR than most other cities in New York. State lines often do not line up well with team distribution, and there are always teams that will get the short end of the stick. Ideally, once everyone moves to districts, teams will be free to choose the geographically closest events.

There are also "nudges" from HQ on how they want the district boundaries to look. I'm not sure the reasoning.

Yes, once interdistrict play starts, the boundaries won't mean much anymore except for the Championship events.

Once we go to districts we will be adding events in other cities.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

Go west, young man.

(Most of) Ohio FRC has a more natural connection with parts east, traditionally. I firmly believe that is the direction in which we are headed.

Rather than focus your preferences on traditional travel options, I think the more sustainable direction is to add closer events. For example, instead of thinking "Pittsburg is nearer to us than either Cleveland or Columbus, never mind Cincinnati," think "Dover would be a great place for a district competition."

[Jimmy Nichols]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Rather than focus your preferences on traditional travel options, I think the more sustainable direction is to add closer events. For example, instead of thinking "Pittsburg is nearer to us than either Cleveland or Columbus, never mind Cincinnati," think "Dover would be a great place for a district competition."

Those conversations are happening. Based on maps of team locations where the ideal locations would be for new events and where the growth opportunities for growing teams are.

[rsegrest]

This was a hot topic in another thread. How does this work in a state the size of mine...



Our closest district event would probably be at least 120 miles away...in a city that already hosts almost 40 teams...

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by rsegrest

This was a hot topic in another thread. How does this work in a state the size of mine...

It can't be any more of a problem than the current state of things, can it? I doubt anyone is suggesting eliminating competition locations.

Our closest district event would probably be at least 120 miles away...in a city that already hosts almost 40 teams...

I don't have a convenient map of team locations, but I am going to guess that there are probably enough teams north of Houston and east of Dallas to make Nacogdoches a reasonable place to hold a competition.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Rather than focus your preferences on traditional travel options, I think the more sustainable direction is to add closer events. For example, instead of thinking "Pittsburg is nearer to us than either Cleveland or Columbus, never mind Cincinnati," think "Dover would be a great place for a district competition."

The Mahoning Valley Robotics Challenge in the Youngstown-Warren, OH area (NEOFRA land) was developed with the intent of the region becoming a district host one day. Such things are under way.

That being said, just like has happened in every other district, we do need to include established regional venues within our web of eventual district/district championship events.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

...just like has happened in every other district, we do need to include established regional venues within our web of eventual district/district championship events.

Established venues aren't necessarily as important as it might seem. None of the proposed arenas for the Indiana district competitons had been used for FRC regionals.

Actually, Kokomo did start out hosting IRI at Memorial Gym, so one finds a little bit of ancient FRC history there. And it turns out that the originally chosen Indianapolis venue got pre-empted and the current IRI host facility is taking its place, so that's some more FRC continuity. But the Purdue event replacing the Boilermaker Regional isn't in the Armory, and the Crossroads Regional basically vanished.

As for choosing district boundaries, there are going to be teams at the edge however it's done. The Queen City and Midwest Regionals are closer for some teams than any of the Indiana events. They cope.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

It can't be any more of a problem than the current state of things, can it? I doubt anyone is suggesting eliminating competition locations.



I don't have a convenient map of team locations, but I am going to guess that there are probably enough teams north of Houston and east of Dallas to make Nacogdoches a reasonable place to hold a competition.

It's not exactly team locations (I can give you a map of Texas w/ 2014 teams and 2015 events plotted later if you want) but I did map all travel for 2014 that might be semi relevant: http://schreiaj.github.io/frc-travel-map/

[Foster]

I'm not a big fan of forcing state boundaries as district borders. (MAR and NE don't, FiM does) I like the concept of "here is a district, if there is one nearer to you, opt into that one". That helps with the travel, etc. for teams that have closer districts (Dave's and smistthegreat's points)

It would make places like CA and TX a little easier to manage. CA could be NorCal and SouthCal, you could divide TX into thirds. I also see districts splitting as FRC continues to grow.

I like the idea that you can do an outside the district event ("Hey Mom, we are going to Utah for robots!" ), but I think you would go to "your" district.

I really hate the concept of a group of roboteers working 1,600 hours during build season and then only getting 7 matches out of it at their lone regional. I love districts since it gives you two chances to play for the same money.

Siri has a point about making friends in districts. Some of alliance selection is scouting, but sometimes a "we know them, we've seen them play before at another district" comes into play.

I was really exited when Alan said "Dover would be a great place" until I figured out he wasn't talking about Dover Delaware

[AdamStockton]

Originally Posted by Alex2614

Hopefully they would include West Virginia and even western PA. With everyone around us speculating about going to districts, if nobody includes us that isolates us from any close events.

Out of curiosity, where would those teams compete if everyone around them is in a district format? Wouldn't not including them make it even more difficult for those teams than it already is? These teams should be included in a nearby district instead of being forced into Canada or a regional 10 hours away. It only further alienates them than they already are.

With the expansion of the district model to new areas, you create the issue of "non-district" or regional teams becoming more and more isolated and limited in the events that those teams can compete at. For example, 1507 commonly competes in Ohio for our travel regional. If Ohio (and possibly western PA) goes to districts next season, that cuts our list of reasonable locations in half.

Hopefully, this new "mini-district" concept that Indiana is piloting this year is part of the solution to this issue. Hopefully some of these lesser populated areas that are being sectioned off by larger districts can move to the district model as well.

It seems like a lot of regions are about to make the transition to districts in the next year or two. I'm not sure what the plans are for the New York/Finger Lakes region as far as a conversion to districts (I herd it is rumored for 2016). Until we convert, we are going to continually be more and more limited in the number of events we can compete in

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by AdamStockton

With the expansion of the district model to new areas, you create the issue of "non-district" or regional teams becoming more and more isolated and limited in the events that those teams can compete at. For example, 1507 commonly competes in Ohio for our travel regional. If Ohio (and possibly western PA) goes to districts next season, that cuts our list of reasonable locations in half.

Hopefully, this new "mini-district" concept that Indiana is piloting this year is part of the solution to this issue. Hopefully some of these lesser populated areas that are being sectioned off by larger districts can move to the district model as well.

My thoughts exactly. Plus, it sets up a catch-22. It's increasingly more difficult/expensive for "regional" teams to travel, thus making it harder to sustain and start up new teams, but it is like this because there are not enough teams in the area. It's essentially punishing non-district areas for not having enough teams, but making things more difficult for those teams.

Districts are already at a huge cost advantage over everyone else, this just ads fuel to the fire.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

That being said, just like has happened in every other district, we do need to include established regional venues within our web of eventual district/district championship events.

Only one of the 18 FiM District events was previously a Regional location (W Mich.). Great Lakes was the MSC location until this year. Wayne State couldn't guarantee the arena one year because their basketball team might have made playoffs, so we moved out of there too.

On the subject of moving to smaller cities in more remote locations, we now have 3 - Traverse City (from year 1), Escanaba (last year) and Standish (new this year). It resembles "build it and they will come". More importantly, the event becomes a community and media event in the smaller locations. I was at the first TC event, and it was well covered by the local news media. People came from quite a distance away to see what it was about.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Only one of the 18 FiM District events was previously a Regional location (W Mich.). Great Lakes was the MSC location until this year. Wayne State couldn't guarantee the arena one year because their basketball team might have made playoffs, so we moved out of there too.

On the subject of moving to smaller cities in more remote locations, we now have 3 - Traverse City (from year 1), Escanaba (last year) and Standish (new this year). It resembles "build it and they will come". More importantly, the event becomes a community and media event in the smaller locations. I was at the first TC event, and it was well covered by the local news media. People came from quite a distance away to see what it was about.

Instead of "regional venue" I should have said "regional location". You don't run away from the volunteers, sponsors, and especially the teams who are concentrated in those larger urban centers. You can have the events at whatever venue you can afford within the metro area of interest.

And if you want to establish other district competitions in more podunk locations, more power to ye.