Team Corruption - Advice Urgently Needed

[JamesCH95]

You do not deserve to be treated so horribly, but it will continue as long as you allow it to happen. There are two options I see at the moment:

(1) If you are officially affiliated with a school system there are likely options you may pursue with regards to bullying, harassment, and discrimination. This will (painfully) excise some of the offending parties from your team and hopefully reduce nepotism. However, it will not correct the underlying attitude issue unless all offending people are removed and/or have a serious attitude adjustment.

(2) Split off and start your own team. It sounds drastic, but the environment you describe is unprofessional, frustrating, degrading, disrespectful, and generally unacceptable. If a new team is started you have the opportunity to recruit students and mentors who share a cohesive vision and attitude and you can establish protocols that eliminate or reduce nepotism.

Honestly, in your position, I would go with #2. A clean slate is the easiest way to form the team that you want with the ideal you wish to represent. It will likely be easy to convince those not in the inner circle to leave, while it will be VERY difficult to remove those already in the inner circle. It will be hard work, but it is possible, and probably the healthiest thing for you to do. My greatest fear would be that there would always be remnants of nepotism unless you split into two teams.

[weaversam8]

Even if you are not affiliated with a school, there are options to take regarding discrimination.

The FIRST Youth Protection Program (YPP) is run by the Youth Protection Department in Manchester. If you have documented issues of discrimination or other improper things against students, this may be the best path to take through FIRST.

The website for the YPP is here:
http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/youth-protection-program

I am so sorry that your team is having to go through this. I wish you best of luck.

[dschmalzel]

I am not sure how things are in your area but in Michigan you don't have to go very far to find another team. Our team is made up of kids from several different schools in the area, a few of them even have their own teams.

Find another team that could use your help, think of it as outreach or just moving to another team. I guarantee there are newer teams out there that would love to have the help of someone that has been on a bigger team. It might take more effort than just going to your meeting at the school you are already attending, but you may find it is worth it.

If a large number of students are leaving to join other teams, they might get the hint that there is something wrong with the way they are operating the team.

Either way, good luck. Just remember that your time in FIRST is limited, make the most of it you can.

[Jaywalker1711]

I know how you feel here, my team was actually partially shut down by the administration over the summer due to similar problems.

We had mentors harassing some of the kids to begin with, and nobody was sure what to do about that.

Then, we we were electing leaders of the team, an inner circle formed to rig these elections. The school administration was tipped off and all meetings were cancelled.

I and some other members got together and restructured the team in an attempt to eliminate these problems. We managed to do recruiting and continue our important outreach! So far, the new structure has worked, and we are enjoying what may be our best season yet.


You guys need to go to school officials with this, and also contact that organization within first previously mentioned that deals with this. Don't put up with nepotism, it benefits no one.



If you need anyone to talk to, feel free to message me. I know how you feel, and I would love to do anything I could to help.

[alephzer0]

This makes me so mad.
The fact that this kind of thread even needs to exist makes me lose confidence in humanity. FIRST is supposed to be an organization where kids can learn about technology in a friendly environment.
My advice:
There are multiple things you can do. In many states, there are strong anti-bullying laws that call for intense investigation at even the slightest hint of bullying.I don't know what state you're in, but do some research. If you can, file a report to the school. In many states, the police may get involved, and the people you accuse of bullying will be investigated. This will serve as a huge deterrent for future potential bullies.
If you have video evidence, make it public on social media; try to get attention elsewhere. If you get enough attention to the cause, you can find more advice. And as it was said earlier, once you post the videos they're public; you can use them as evidence in bullying investigations.
If all else fails, go for the throat. (Not literally. Please don't actually kill anyone). What I mean is report all this to the administration. If they disband the team, then start a new team somewhere else. But request that they simply reassign the team to a new teacher who will clean it up, rather than disbanding it.
Just remember: NEVER GIVE UP. Try EVERYTHING and then try it again. Something is bound to work.
NOTE: THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION, AND I AM ENTITLED TO IT. YOU CAN FOLLOW THIS ADVICE OR COMPLETELY DISREGARD IT.
Also, I am also open to be PM'd about this. I want to help as much as I can.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by alephzer0

If you have video evidence, make it public on social media; try to get attention elsewhere. If you get enough attention to the cause, you can find more advice. And as it was said earlier, once you post the videos they're public; you can use them as evidence in bullying investigations.

I would not do this. Not on social media.

As a middle-to-late resort, the local news stations would be a much better option, ONLY if the administration wasn't doing anything. Then you get LOCAL pressure, AKA the folks that elect school boards, pack school board meetings, pay the salaries of school administration and teachers... If it's major of a deal enough, it'll make it out there for the rest of the world to see.

But once it's on social media, only the entire world can see that X, Y, and Z are "making life difficult" for you guys. While that does get some attention, it'll be split into "huh?", "I should care because?", "whiners", and "Oh, we need to do something", and most of the folks out there aren't going to be anywhere near in range to do anything. Other than by petition that will likely be ignored, that is.

Also, the odds of there actually being video evidence--that can actually work--are very slim by the very nature of the issue.

[alephzer0]

Originally Posted by EricH

I would not do this. Not on social media.

As a middle-to-late resort, the local news stations would be a much better option, ONLY if the administration wasn't doing anything. Then you get LOCAL pressure, AKA the folks that elect school boards, pack school board meetings, pay the salaries of school administration and teachers... If it's major of a deal enough, it'll make it out there for the rest of the world to see.

But once it's on social media, only the entire world can see that X, Y, and Z are "making life difficult" for you guys. While that does get some attention, it'll be split into "huh?", "I should care because?", "whiners", and "Oh, we need to do something", and most of the folks out there aren't going to be anywhere near in range to do anything. Other than by petition that will likely be ignored, that is.

Also, the odds of there actually being video evidence--that can actually work--are very slim by the very nature of the issue.

Now that I think about it, you might be right. But the most important line of my post wasn't intended to be that advice, that was just one idea. The main idea of "Don't give up" still stands.

[gblake]

Scanning through this thread, I haven't noticed anyone asking the students what they want to get from being a member of this team.

Once you answer that, and then ask yourselves how many other ways exist to accomplish the same goals (despite the fact that plenty of people drink the Kool-aid, FIRST is definitely not the only way to enjoy STEM activities or robotics activities), I'll hope that you suddenly realize that the folks you feel trapped by, actually have NO hold over you.

You can find sources of STEM inspiration without them. You can form STEM robotics or software teams, and enjoy excelling without them.

You can form a school club, a 4H club, a neighborhood club, a Scouting Venture group, a Church group, a whatever, completely without needing permission, participation, or support from those other students or adults.

Once you become comfortable with those notions, and you have realized that you aren't trapped - that there are no chains on you - then I suggest you decide what you want to do next.

Life is too short to spend it in a miserable he-said, she-said, die-in-the-ditch fight over demanding respect from anyone whose respect you don't need.

So be gracious, be professional, be confident, be effective and be inspired. Accomplish your goals without painting yourself into imaginary boxes. Pay the price of success in honest effort, and live well.

If doing the above includes improving the internal processes of the FIRST team you are supporting right now, do it for the right reasons, do it quietly, use advice from mature and respected leaders within your community, and do it as a form of paying forward, not to punish anyone.

Blake

[techhelpbb]

Look I hate to say this but:

Let me assure you what you are experiencing is disturbingly similar to things you will encounter in the real world and it has nothing to do with STEM careers per se:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/24/living...-workplace-cb/

If you want to see your company fail: start by letting cliques form.
It's the fastest way for things to become about politics and games rather than the weighing the merits.
Shortly there after the customers will realize that merit is not the goal.
Shortly after that if the company doesn't disband it will disintegrate.

The thing about FIRST is that as a student you can only do it for so long.
Disintegration of the team as you know it is inevitable because of graduation.

My advice is that you have to decide what you get out of FIRST as you experience it.
Are you learning skills? If you are, could you learn them another way?
Is the issue that you feel like you won't win? Is that really the most important thing to you?
Is the issue that you feel unappreciated? If so can you do what you care about another way?

I've gone down the road many times and it's never a good road to travel.
'Outing' them is not going to address anything.
Confronting them is unlikely to address anything.
If this is really entrenched as you say - time to put aside the frustration and get back to the basics: what can you get out of STEM and how can you grow that.

Own your future, or let me assure you, others will try to own it.
Sometimes this means you have to tolerate nonsense for a while.
This is the reason why I basically don't care if my team wins the actual competition:
My goal is to produce opportunity via STEM - not to make people think that wining a competition is anything like real life.
I don't get trophies and loud music in real life - maybe a nice dinner or a bonus.
Even if we fail - miserably - I hope the students enjoyed working with the tools and learned about the process.
Even our worst years have produced students that go on to do great because you can learn from failure.

So stop and remember this is not life and death. The sun will rise tomorrow.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

Look I hate to say this but:

Let me assure you what you are experiencing is disturbingly similar to things you will encounter in the real world and it has nothing to do with STEM careers per se:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/24/living...-workplace-cb/

If you want to see your company fail: start by letting cliques form.
It's the fastest way for things to become about politics and games rather than the weighing the merits.
Shortly there after the customers will realize that merit is not the goal.
Shortly after that if the company doesn't disband it will disintegrate.

The thing about FIRST is that as a student you can only do it for so long.
Disintegration of the team as you know it is inevitable because of graduation.

My advice is that you have to decide what you get out of FIRST as you experience it.
Are you learning skills? If you are, could you learn them another way?
Is the issue that you feel like you won't win? Is that really the most important thing to you?
Is the issue that you feel unappreciated? If so can you do what you care about another way?

I've gone down the road many times and it's never a good road to travel.
'Outing' them is not going to address anything.
Confronting them is unlikely to address anything.
If this is really entrenched as you say - time to put aside the frustration and get back to the basics: what can you get out of STEM and how can you grow that.

Own your future, or let me assure you, others will try to own it.
Sometimes this means you have to tolerate nonsense for a while.

Sorry, but this is some of the worst advice I've seen in a long time. Verbal abuse, homophobic behavior by mentors, and excluding depressed students goes far beyond "nonsense". Something needs to be done, if not for OP then for the other students on a team. No one ever said that he's worrying about winning or "feeling appreciated".

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by bduddy

Something needs to be done, if not for OP then for the other students on a team. No one ever said that he's worrying about winning or "feeling appreciated".

You can feel free to disagree.
However the issue I have is this: a lack of evidence.

An anonymous person posting on a public forum with serious accusations.
How level headed is it - that something must be done?

If these accusations are hasty how would you undo the harm that this accusation creates?

Also clearly if the issue was not feeling appreciated then why does it matter - at all - if a group of people hijack the robot after someone leaves and make changes without discussing it?
In almost 2 decades I've been out sick and changes were made to parts I was working on that I wasn't always comfortable with but sometimes that's just how it is.

To quote the original post:

- mentors physically working on the robot with favored students after meetings and making decisions without consulting the rest of the team.
- mentors purposely delaying student requests to order certain robot components because they personally disagree with design ideas
-students are repeatedly told to respect mentors when vice versa is rarely applicable.
- genuine, respectful feedback from involved veteran members is taken as disrespectful by mentors with no logical explanation other than disagreement.

Oh and let me clarify: I have seen students make serious accusations against people that were quite clearly innocent out of misplaced feelings. Much more serious accusations than this. It's not pretty.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

If these accusations are hasty how would you undo the harm that this accusation creates?

That is true. However, I ask you this: What evidence do you have that there are no issues?

I remind you that most places have laws/rules/regulations/policies against the behavior that is described--if someone goes to the appropriate party and says "Hey, such-and-such is happening", then the appropriate party is required to investigate and take appropriate action--which may in fact be "we have no evidence", or it may be more severe. (And it's entirely possible that the action taken isn't appropriate at all but that's a debate for another time.)

Also clearly if the issue was not feeling appreciated then why does it matter - at all - if a group of people hijack the robot after someone leaves and make changes without discussion it?

Are you assuming that that ("feeling appreciated") is the issue? I don't get that anywhere in the initial post. That "hijacking" as you put it is clearly a sign that either someone doesn't understand the decision structure, or someone else has chosen to ignore the decision structure. Pick one.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by EricH

That is true. However, I ask you this: What evidence do you have that there are no issues?

I remind you that most places have laws/rules/regulations/policies against the behavior that is described--if someone goes to the appropriate party and says "Hey, such-and-such is happening", then the appropriate party is required to investigate and take appropriate action--which may in fact be "we have no evidence", or it may be more severe. (And it's entirely possible that the action taken isn't appropriate at all but that's a debate for another time.)

I agree I don't have evidence to cause me to act.
I also can't guarantee that there's nothing wrong there.
However as you say there are rules - often rules well displayed for detecting and addressing negative behavior like this.

So the questions that beg to be asked then are:

1. Do they not know about these rules?
Perhaps that is an issue FIRST should consider on a larger scale because it will be lost in the flow of this topic.

2. Does the school not publish these rules? As you say many are local law and require publication and in some cases even interactive education. So why take the grievance here instead of down that path?

Are you assuming that that ("feeling appreciated") is the issue? I don't get that anywhere in the initial post. That "hijacking" as you put it is clearly a sign that either someone doesn't understand the decision structure, or someone else has chosen to ignore the decision structure. Pick one.

It's certainly not the entire issue but I take away from it that it's there.
Generally grievances like this are rarely just this one aspect but add this to the great big kettle and stir and sooner or later the mixture can be volatile.
Someone gets bullied and sooner or later it starts attacking their self-worth.
The thing is that you can tread near being a bully, and to a person that is often more seriously bullied it can be a serious blow and their reaction could have reasons but be misdirected.

[alephzer0]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

I agree I don't have evidence to cause me to act.
I also can't guarantee that there's nothing wrong there.
However as you say there are rules - often rules well displayed for detecting and addressing negative behavior like this.

So the questions that beg to be asked then are:

1. Do they not know about these rules?
Perhaps that is an issue FIRST should consider on a larger scale because it will be lost in the flow of this topic.

2. Does the school not publish these rules? As you say many are local law and require publication and in some cases even interactive education. So why take the grievance here instead of down that path?



It's certainly not the entire issue but I take away from it that it's there.
Generally grievances like this are rarely just this one aspect but add this to the great big kettle and stir and sooner or later the mixture can be volatile.
Someone gets bullied and sooner or later it starts attacking their self-worth.
The thing is that you can tread near being a bully, and to a person that is often more seriously bullied it can be a serious blow and their reaction could have reasons but be misdirected.

I feel like, in a situation like this, the worst thing to do is nothing.

Assuming nothing is done, then the situation will fall to something I like to call "Moral Entropy." Which is, in a sense, the law that states that anything when left to itself will get worse.
Basically this means that if we sit here and argue over whether or not there is enough evidence to warrant an investigation, the corruption will get worse and eventually destroy the team in question.
Always consider the worst case scenario, then go with the course of action whose worst possible consequences are less severe.
Assume the OP is making this up and just trying to get someone in trouble. Then an investigation happens, a little inconvenience for the person in question, then they are acquitted and life goes on.
Now assume the OP is telling the truth (which I think he/she is). Then assume no investigation happens. The team remains corrupt and nothing is solved; students remain miserable. Much worse, I think.
And also: the OP asked mainly for advice. Why would they ask falsely for advice, that they would never use, if it gave them no benefit? Doesn't make sense to me.

[gblake]

Folks,

Let's refer the OP to the mature, level-headed, and respected leaders that surely exist in their own community, and then let those people use their boots on the ground to improve any bad situations.

Does that sound wiser than speculating in a forum thread?

Separately let's remind the OP that they don't have to spend time in a toxic environment in order to fed their STEM-inspiration appetites, unless for some reason they want to spend time in it. There are plenty of excellent alternatives, and the choice is entirely theirs (them and their family) to make, not someone else's.

Blake