Michigan District Event Difficulty

[Bryce Paputa]

Originally Posted by April_robo

Can I see the Southfield and Troy districts?

Here they are.

Originally Posted by Ronnie314

When are 3rd events going to be added for teams?
-Ronnie

Dang, I thought I had waited until they were filled. You guys rank first at Lansing.

[SeanKwobot141]

First time at Howell, Looking forward to it!

[FIMAlumni]

Fun with numbers from the two Week 1 events posted. Assuming this is 100% accurate, alliances always pick best robot available (SCOUTING IS IMPORTANT), and teams don't interfere with each other.

Howell:
Alliance: Captain, First pick, second pick: combined score
1: 862, 1918, 3536: 142.2
2: 107, 494, 4327: 116.3
3: 2771, 3322, 3658: 104.7
4: 245, 141, 1504: 100
5: 4956, 4384, 830: 96
6: 4362, 1189 66: 91.8
7: 4003, 302, 5114: 87.7
8: 3572, 4325, 4004: 80

Southfield:
Alliance: Captain, First pick, second pick: combined score
1: 33, 1023, 5014: 163.3
2: 548 573, 5695: 110.8
3: 910, 3604, 5467: 84.8
4: 2960, 1701, 5673: 76.5
5: 453, 3667, 5642: 68.3
6: 3548, 94, 5619: 63.7
7: 3547,2673, 5577: 57.5
8: 5167, 835, 3302: 50.7

[Bryce Paputa]

Originally Posted by FIMAlumni

Fun with numbers from the two Week 1 events posted. Assuming this is 100% accurate, alliances always pick best robot available (SCOUTING IS IMPORTANT), and teams don't interfere with each other.

Howell:
Alliance: Captain, First pick, second pick: combined score
1: 862, 1918, 3536: 142.2
2: 107, 494, 4327: 116.3
3: 2771, 3322, 3658: 104.7
4: 245, 141, 1504: 100
5: 4956, 4384, 830: 96
6: 4362, 1189 66: 91.8
7: 4003, 302, 5114: 87.7
8: 3572, 4325, 4004: 80

Southfield:
Alliance: Captain, First pick, second pick: combined score
1: 33, 1023, 5014: 163.3
2: 548 573, 5695: 110.8
3: 910, 3604, 5467: 84.8
4: 2960, 1701, 5673: 76.5
5: 453, 3667, 5642: 68.3
6: 3548, 94, 5619: 63.7
7: 3547,2673, 5577: 57.5
8: 5167, 835, 3302: 50.7

Speculation like this is always interesting, but the numbers include points for awards like chairman's and dean's list. Stuff like that might have a tiny influence on picks, but no where as big as the score weights it. IIRC, The scoring system gives (50/number of district events attended) for winning chairman's, which puts it approximately equal to winning the event as first seed. It's the same system that fantasy first uses, you can look at the rules in that forum for more details.

[FIMAlumni]

Originally Posted by Bryce Paputa

Speculation like this is always interesting, but the numbers include points for awards like chairman's and dean's list. Stuff like that might have a tiny influence on picks, but no where as big as the score weights it. IIRC, The scoring system gives (50/number of district events attended) for winning chairman's, which puts it approximately equal to winning the event as first seed. It's the same system that fantasy first uses, you can look at the rules in that forum for more details.

Thanks for the input, of course this is all just fun speculation. If the numbers matched up perfectly we should just crown the state champions now. Side note, winning awards like chairman's and dean's list will help a team get picked. Brand recognition and wow factors do influence teams picking.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by SeanKwobot141

First time at Howell, Looking forward to it!

Howell is a good event. Nice layout, and a roomy arena. Competed there last year, and will be returning this year as well. But eeeeeeeeeewwwwww; week 1...

See you there!

[Boltman]

chairman's and dean's list don't enter into my scouting...as they have little to do with robot performance directly , there are better metrics

[Brandon Ha]

Chairman's and Dean's have far reaching impacts upon every aspect of robotics , not only within sponsorships and community. Please never mistake the fact that while some teams maybe a chairman's team to be one of lesser quality.
In reality, these are hallmarks for successful teams because they have a history of doing things right, which is why they are "better" over the years.

[FIMAlumni]

Originally Posted by Boltman

chairman's and dean's list don't enter into my scouting...as they have little to do with robot performance directly , there are better metrics

I never meant to imply that Chairman's and dean's list enter onto your scouting sheets. Winning the big awards does however make your team stand out from the crowd. If your robot is about as good 5-6 other robots, these awards as well as loud cheering sections, bright shirts, flashy LED lights, funny costumes, ect. all help your team stand out from the crowd. Best example of bright shirts in Michigan are the Thunder Chickens. Granted this team rarely needs help being recognized but it certainly doesn't hurt. I'm not saying these awards are going to suddenly move you up 20 picks, but it could help 1-3 picks.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by FIMAlumni

I never meant to imply that Chairman's and dean's list enter onto your scouting sheets. Winning the big awards does however make your team stand out from the crowd. If your robot is about as good 5-6 other robots, these awards as well as loud cheering sections, bright shirts, flashy LED lights, funny costumes, ect. all help your team stand out from the crowd. Best example of bright shirts in Michigan are the Thunder Chickens. Granted this team rarely needs help being recognized but it certainly doesn't hurt. I'm not saying these awards are going to suddenly move you up 20 picks, but it could help 1-3 picks.

Agreed..however this thread is on "Event Difficulty" and ranking relative team strength and ranking "best robots"... all I am saying is that Deans and Chairman's does not have a direct effect and may very well skew the choice based on those factors in the wrong direction when ranking "robot/driver strength" any one particular year versus overall "Team strength/community involvement/ popularity". There are better metrics to use that aren't as subjective. IMO. That's the thing with statistics make sure your main metrics are not subjective. I should know I had plenty of statistics classes to obtain my degree and that's the way statistics work primarily. Its math.

[SeanKwobot141]

Originally Posted by Boltman

chairman's and dean's list don't enter into my scouting...as they have little to do with robot performance directly , there are better metrics

Really! I find this interesting Why Deans list?

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by SeanKwobot141

Really! I find this interesting Why Deans list?

Deans List: Celebrates outstanding student leaders whose passion for and effectiveness at attaining FIRST ideals is exemplary

How does that directly affect Robot/driver strength in any particular match or year?

Its a great accomplishment but not much of a factor in specific robot/drive team performance. I chose not to use those to scout unless its an absolute TIE. then these factors could help break a tie. But then again there are other more relevant metrics for performance on field IMO.

[Bryce Paputa]

Originally Posted by Boltman

Agreed..however this thread is on "Event Difficulty" and ranking relative team strength and ranking "best robots"... all I am saying is that Deans and Chairman's does not have a direct effect and may very well skew the choice based on those factors in the wrong direction when ranking "robot/driver strength" any one particular year versus overall "Team strength/community involvement/ popularity". There are better metrics to use that aren't as subjective. IMO. That's the thing with statistics make sure your main metrics are not subjective. I should know I had plenty of statistics classes to obtain my degree and that's the way statistics work primarily. Its math.

There are two different types of difficulty, difficulty in qualifications and eliminations, and difficulty for winning awards. These numbers should be a roughly equal combination of the two. They're definitely related to each other, but not strongly enough to use for picking. Our scouting process this year is extremely objective, but some important factors are very hard to objectivise. We haven't completely decided how to include these factors, but they will be included. These factors aren't chairman's success or other award history though, more like how well their robot complements our skills and how prepared they are.

[chapman1]

Fine work Bryce; thanks for sharing!

[Coach#3536]

Just a bit of warning from 3536. We had a real tough time with field connections day one with our bot. 5 matches of dumps and drops from field communication. We found out the hard way it had to do with our use of the smart dashboard and data logging. We suggest any team using it to turn it off if possible when going to field. We followed the wpi templates and it made us backlog on start up and drop! It doesn't show up in practice mode. FTA was awesome helping us find it but we suffered with a great robot until it was found. Hence a great final day when the robot was able to do what it was designed to do. Thankfully scouts on our alliance did their homework and found us in the crowd of numbers. Thanks to our partners we had a great day! Good luck everyone.