Go to Post Now, what we really need is a big spotlight in the sky that shoots out the letters "CD" so Brandon knows to come running to the server cave ... - mtrawls [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
View Poll Results: What do you think will be the average score that gets a team a number one seed?
10 3 0.93%
20 1 0.31%
30 0 0%
40 3 0.93%
50 7 2.16%
60 32 9.88%
70 32 9.88%
80 50 15.43%
90 27 8.33%
100 54 16.67%
110 31 9.57%
120 35 10.80%
130 16 4.94%
140 3 0.93%
More than 140 30 9.26%
Voters: 324. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #46   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-02-2015, 16:58
Green Potato Green Potato is offline
Registered User
AKA: Tory Farmer
FRC #0422 (Mech Tech Dragons)
Team Role: Tactician
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 59
Green Potato is a glorious beacon of lightGreen Potato is a glorious beacon of lightGreen Potato is a glorious beacon of lightGreen Potato is a glorious beacon of lightGreen Potato is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

It'll heavily vary based on the regional itself and the level of "competition" there. In this game, there is no real defense, and thus better robots will likely lead more directly to higher average scores than in years past. I'd guess anywhere in the 80- 100 range, but for week one and especially the weaker completions, they may be on the low end of that.
  #47   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-02-2015, 23:15
PayneTrain's Avatar
PayneTrain PayneTrain is offline
Q&A Dartboard Detractor
AKA: Lizard King
FRC #0422 (The Meme Tech Pneumatic Devices)
Team Role: Mascot
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: RVA
Posts: 2,271
PayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared View Post
I do agree that this game is spectacularly difficult and slower paced than most games (many teams had to speed up their robot reveal videos and make cuts - it's not too exciting to see a robot park in front of a feeder station and load 6 totes for 25 seconds), but I'm not as pessimistic as you are.

Here are a few reasons:
1). Teams have access to an amazing selection of COTS parts this year, including REV robotics bearings/extrusions for making simple lifts, new Vex Pro and AndyMark gearboxes for powering these lifts, and many options for affordable, off the shelf drive systems. These COTS products are cheaper than ever before, so building a decent elevator is no longer too difficult.

2). There are a decent number of reasonable easy points to get. Coopertition sets are quite easy to get, and a coopertition stack only requires one robot to do any stacking so it may happen more than the 2012 co-op bridge, which required two robots to be good balancers.

3). There's less room for robot damage. In previous years, there has been lots of defense, things to fall off of, things to crash into, and scoring racks to get tangled in. This year, there's not much on the field that can damage your robot.

4). It's easy to practice. A practice field can be very close to the competition field this year. Teams need less room to set up the field, and the scoring platforms, tote chute, and step are much less complicated than the 2013 tower + goals, the 2012 bridge + hoops, and is as easy to build as the 2014 low goal and high goal.

5). RI3D. The Team Indiana lexan flaps are a great idea that many teams have implemented.

I could be wrong, but it seems like we've gotten carried away with saying that teams will always do worse than we expect.
1) Building the elevator would not have been the hardest part of this game even without COTS.

2) Even if you think Co-op stacks/sets are easy to get, the act of placing the scoring objects is not the hardest part of this maneuver. It's both alliances understanding pre-planning and both alliances able to execute this.

3) Damage by opponents has been replaced with damage by partners and/or falling scoring objects. The COTS factor you mentioned in #1 rears its ugly head here. Even smart teams are running 2 speed ballshifters. High speed impacts into a frame w/o bumpers is not fun. In terms of game piece weight, the cans are the heaviest and the totes are the third heaviest scoring objects in the modern era. The second heaviest object, the tetra, were not scored on precarious goals on the field, but on two bumps that cross over half the field.

4) It is easy to practice, but given the difficulty of the game I've been trying to describe, and weather in some places, how much time did WEEK 1 teams get to practice, even for the select group with a practice machine?

5) Ri3D may be the downfall of some teams. How many machines adequately covered how to acquire totes from the landfill or station and adequately communicated to people who use those resources that that is such a priority?
  #48   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 11:56
eddie12390's Avatar
eddie12390 eddie12390 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Eddie
FRC #3260 (SHARP)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 285
eddie12390 is a glorious beacon of lighteddie12390 is a glorious beacon of lighteddie12390 is a glorious beacon of lighteddie12390 is a glorious beacon of lighteddie12390 is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

I mistakenly made this poll end a week later than I had intended to. I plan to post another poll Saturday night along with a quick analysis of how well Chief Delphi was able to predict scoring and how that ability to predict changes over the season. The level of discussion and widely varying votes have piqued my interest. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the poll I was unable to do anything meaningful statistically with the data. Next week's poll will have a more realistic minimum and will not include any values that aren't numerical. Thanks to everyone who voted. In case anyone is interested, here's a slightly prettier chart of the data provided. I find it funny how closely it resembles a normal curve up until the very end of the chart.

__________________
Any post that I make expresses only my opinions. I do not represent the opinions of my team or of any entity affiliated with my team.

As a Mentor:
2016 - Engineering Inspiration at Greater Pittsburgh Regional

As a Driver:
2014 - Winner of Greater Pittsburgh Regional
  #49   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 12:00
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 5,524
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie12390 View Post
I mistakenly made this poll end a week later than I had intended to. I plan to post another poll Saturday night along with a quick analysis of how well Chief Delphi was able to predict scoring and how that ability to predict changes over the season. The level of discussion and widely varying votes have piqued my interest. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the poll I was unable to do anything meaningful statistically with the data. Next week's poll will have a more realistic minimum and will not include any values that aren't numerical. Thanks to everyone who voted. In case anyone is interested, here's a slightly prettier chart of the data provided. I find it funny how closely it resembles a normal curve up until the very end of the chart.

The end of the chart isn't a single category of 10 points, it's everyone who thinks 140 and above. That will inherently skew it.
  #50   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 12:01
eddie12390's Avatar
eddie12390 eddie12390 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Eddie
FRC #3260 (SHARP)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 285
eddie12390 is a glorious beacon of lighteddie12390 is a glorious beacon of lighteddie12390 is a glorious beacon of lighteddie12390 is a glorious beacon of lighteddie12390 is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
The end of the chart isn't a single category of 10 points, it's everyone who thinks 140 and above. That will inherently skew it.
I understand, I commented on that in my post.
__________________
Any post that I make expresses only my opinions. I do not represent the opinions of my team or of any entity affiliated with my team.

As a Mentor:
2016 - Engineering Inspiration at Greater Pittsburgh Regional

As a Driver:
2014 - Winner of Greater Pittsburgh Regional
  #51   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 12:12
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,766
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

60.

Keep in mind no one plays at full strength on match 1 of week 1, I expect the average #1 seed to be as good as a team that can auto and co-op consistently, even if they do nothing else.

Some regionals won't have this robot, some teams with this robot won't be consistent every match, but the somewhat fluctuating nature of extra can points somewhat cancels this out.
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
--2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
.
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
-- 2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design -- 2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
-- 2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
-- 2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
  #52   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 12:14
Nick Lawrence's Avatar
Nick Lawrence Nick Lawrence is offline
Commander Canada
FRC #3940 (CyberTooth, AndyMark)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Kokomo, IN
Posts: 713
Nick Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeNick Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeNick Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeNick Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeNick Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeNick Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeNick Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeNick Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeNick Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeNick Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeNick Lawrence has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

60 is about right IMHO. Remember it's an average not a median. This game is hard.

-Nick
__________________


Alumnus of 1503 Spartonics
Founding Mentor of 5406 Celt-X
Mechanical Design Mentor of 3940 CyberTooth
Emceeing events since 2013 - come say hi!

Success doesn't always equate to match wins. It's about the wins off the field.
  #53   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 12:21
Rangel's Avatar
Rangel Rangel is online now
John Rangel
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 745
Rangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

Starting to agree around 60-70. Even with a strong regional like Dallas where at least one team will probably be able to consistently put up very high points, it isn't really going to affect the average number 1 seed score across all regionals that much.
__________________
2012 Dean's List Winner
2011-2014 Arizona Regional Winners
2016 Las Vegas Regional Winner
2014-? Mentor


  #54   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 17:34
GeeTwo's Avatar
GeeTwo GeeTwo is offline
Technical Director
AKA: Gus Michel II
FRC #3946 (Tiger Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 3,691
GeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond repute
Question Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

Ok, I'm puzzed. I know there's no mathematical validity in the musings below, but trying to make sense of these polls is failing me.

At the How many points do you think your robot could score individually? thread, the median answer is at the very high end of the 61-70 range, so the median responder expects to score about 70 points. (The mean isn't far off, though it's difficult to evaluate with the last, indeterminate value.)

On this poll, the median responder expects the average regional top seed to be 100. Assuming the populations of the two polls are similar, this raises the question:

Does a typical responder
  • expect alliance partners to only average 15 points each, and to be top seed
  • expect even worse performance from partners
  • change expectations that much in four days
  • something else?
__________________

If you can't find time to do it right, how are you going to find time to do it over?
If you don't pass it on, it never happened.
Robots are great, but inspiration is the reason we're here.
Friends don't let friends use master links.
  #55   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 17:43
bduddy bduddy is offline
Registered User
FRC #0840 (ART)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: San Bruno, CA
Posts: 869
bduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
Ok, I'm puzzed. I know there's no mathematical validity in the musings below, but trying to make sense of these polls is failing me.

At the How many points do you think your robot could score individually? thread, the median answer is at the very high end of the 61-70 range, so the median responder expects to score about 70 points. (The mean isn't far off, though it's difficult to evaluate with the last, indeterminate value.)

On this poll, the median responder expects the average regional top seed to be 100. Assuming the populations of the two polls are similar, this raises the question:

Does a typical responder
  • expect alliance partners to only average 15 points each, and to be top seed
  • expect even worse performance from partners
  • change expectations that much in four days
  • something else?
I would wager that the typical respondent here has an above-average robot, and likely does expect their alliance partners to be much worse than them. Many are also not participating in Week 1. The previous poll could also be construed as asking about potential maximum performance, not necessarily performance in the first event.
__________________

Does anyone else remember when TBA signatures actually worked?
  #56   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 17:51
Kevin Leonard Kevin Leonard is offline
Professional Stat Padder
FRC #5254 (HYPE), FRC #20 (The Rocketeers)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,254
Kevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

Quote:
Does a typical responder
  • expect alliance partners to only average 15 points each, and to be top seed
  • expect even worse performance from partners
  • change expectations that much in four days
  • something else?
I would be very surprised if average alliance partners at a week 1 regional averaged 15 points each. That's 7-8 scored totes. Being that most alliance partners won't have a point scoring autonomous, or be able to make more than one stack of totes, I'd feel very confident saying the average robot will score 15 or less points in an average match.
__________________
All of my posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of my associated teams.
College Student Mentor on Team 5254, HYPE - Helping Youth Pursue Excellence
(2015-Present)
Alumni of Team 20, The Rocketeers (2011-2014)
I'm attempting a robotics blog. Check it out at RocketHypeRobotics.wordpress.com Updated 10/26/16
  #57   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 17:51
Jared's Avatar
Jared Jared is offline
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 602
Jared has a reputation beyond reputeJared has a reputation beyond reputeJared has a reputation beyond reputeJared has a reputation beyond reputeJared has a reputation beyond reputeJared has a reputation beyond reputeJared has a reputation beyond reputeJared has a reputation beyond reputeJared has a reputation beyond reputeJared has a reputation beyond reputeJared has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
Ok, I'm puzzed. I know there's no mathematical validity in the musings below, but trying to make sense of these polls is failing me.

At the How many points do you think your robot could score individually? thread, the median answer is at the very high end of the 61-70 range, so the median responder expects to score about 70 points. (The mean isn't far off, though it's difficult to evaluate with the last, indeterminate value.)

On this poll, the median responder expects the average regional top seed to be 100. Assuming the populations of the two polls are similar, this raises the question:

Does a typical responder
  • expect alliance partners to only average 15 points each, and to be top seed
  • expect even worse performance from partners
  • change expectations that much in four days
  • something else?
It seems people like to talk about the lack of ability from "the average team". They believe that "most teams" (people that aren't them) can't really do anything, and will fall over, get stuck on noodles, get in the way, knock their own stack over, and won't figure out how to pick up totes. Remember, we haven't seen real competition yet, and we've actually underestimated teams in the past.
  #58   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 17:59
vhcook's Avatar
vhcook vhcook is offline
Reader of Things
AKA: Victoria
FRC #1939 (Kuh-nig-its)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 546
vhcook has a reputation beyond reputevhcook has a reputation beyond reputevhcook has a reputation beyond reputevhcook has a reputation beyond reputevhcook has a reputation beyond reputevhcook has a reputation beyond reputevhcook has a reputation beyond reputevhcook has a reputation beyond reputevhcook has a reputation beyond reputevhcook has a reputation beyond reputevhcook has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
Ok, I'm puzzed. I know there's no mathematical validity in the musings below, but trying to make sense of these polls is failing me.

At the How many points do you think your robot could score individually? thread, the median answer is at the very high end of the 61-70 range, so the median responder expects to score about 70 points. (The mean isn't far off, though it's difficult to evaluate with the last, indeterminate value.)

On this poll, the median responder expects the average regional top seed to be 100. Assuming the populations of the two polls are similar, this raises the question:

Does a typical responder
  • expect alliance partners to only average 15 points each, and to be top seed
  • expect even worse performance from partners
  • change expectations that much in four days
  • something else?
Something else. The linked question asks how much your robot could score individually in ideal conditions. A team's average contribution in actual match conditions is most probably lower than their response to that poll, which is also likely to have been a bit optimistic on average. They may also assume that the median robot at an event may not score as well as the typical team that would respond to a poll on CD. Also, it's week 1, so scores are typically lower, and many respondents to the original poll may not be competing this week or may have been estimating their ideal performance during the entire season (second event improvement).
__________________


  #59   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 20:40
Rypsnort's Avatar
Rypsnort Rypsnort is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ian Rypkema
FRC #0706
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Hartland Wisconsin
Posts: 56
Rypsnort will become famous soon enough
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

We have to remember we are talking #1 seed here. I feel that, even though it is week 1, the top teams will still preform at a high level. I think that OPR of top teams will be more prevalent in week one than score average because of the lower level of play that comes with week one events. (ie. The top teams will really stand out early in the year.)
__________________
706

Alumni:
2016 Finalist-Buckeye
Team Member:
2015 Creativity Award - Queen City
2015 Quality Award - Wisconsin
2014 Finalist-Lake Superior
2014 Industrial Design-Lake Superior
2014 Finalist-Wisconsin
2014-Quality-Wisconsin
2013-Finalist-Buckeye
Go ZAGs
  #60   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-02-2015, 21:22
Green Potato Green Potato is offline
Registered User
AKA: Tory Farmer
FRC #0422 (Mech Tech Dragons)
Team Role: Tactician
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 59
Green Potato is a glorious beacon of lightGreen Potato is a glorious beacon of lightGreen Potato is a glorious beacon of lightGreen Potato is a glorious beacon of lightGreen Potato is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Week 1 Number One Seed Score Average

Statistics to the rescue!

We have the data right here, and through a bit of math, we can sort of get an idea of where the real average score will fall according to those polled. I'll use a 95% confidence interval for this, just to keep things standard.

First are the assumptions. We appear to have independence, as I really doubt anyone who voted secretly collaborated with someone else just for a poll, but because opinions were expressed below and that may have affected people's argument, I'll proceed with caution. As for the sample being random, it's far from perfect, but it's close enough. The people voting here are cognizant of what teams will be competing, and are generally good at taking educated guesses. However, this really can't easily extend into the general community's opinion, as people posting on this site are much more likely to be from better, more established teams than the weaker ones. Again, this is a reason to proceed with caution when analyzing the data above.

Also, this poll wasn't purely quantitative, as an potion for more than 140 was given. For this number, I estimated the average to be about 155 based on how normal curves behave, but again, this is a point where the real and hypothetical worlds don't mix well.

Just to give some reference...

The mean is 96.96 points per match.
The sample standard deviation is 30.12 points per match.

Assuming this model is an accurate representation of performance (HUGE leap here, even though we have assumptions to back it up a bit, this will likely be a large source of error), we get a 95% confidence interval of...
(93.59 , 100.33)

And there you have it. I am 95% confident that the true mean expectation of the highest qualifier, according to the Chief Delphi community who bothered to vote on this post and who may or may not have a good grasp on the reality of week 1 competitions, is between 93.59 and 100.3 points.

And that's why the real answer is, "We'll see."
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:22.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi