The math of the cans...

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

The arms race (as talked about on GameSense) will be very interesting this year. It's going to be like 2011 but worse since teams can keep throwing power, weight, and design time at it. 3310 has set the bar at their reported 1/4 sec pull. I'm waiting for the 1st team to start wind tunnel testing their mechanism to reduce drag.

start wind tunnel testing?

[Michael Corsetto]

Common, who doesn't like seeing an entire season decided in less than a quarter of a second?

[faust1706]

that's how breakaway was on einstein. If you didn't stop....469(?) in autonomous you lost the match.

Originally Posted by faust1706

469(?)

Yes, 469.

[Josh Fox]

Originally Posted by faust1706

that's how breakaway was on einstein. If you didn't stop....469(?) in autonomous you lost the match.

You may want to take a look at the way things turned out again...

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by faust1706

that's how breakaway was on einstein. If you didn't stop....469(?) in autonomous you lost the match.

Not necessarily...

[x86_4819]

Originally Posted by faust1706

that's how breakaway was on einstein. If you didn't stop....469(?) in autonomous you lost the match.

For those of us that weren't involved in FRC back then, what did they do that was so great?

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by x86_4819

For those of us that weren't involved in FRC back then, what did they do that was so great?

Navigated to the platform and mechanically locked themselves in position to roll all the balls returned into play back into the goal.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by x86_4819

For those of us that weren't involved in FRC back then, what did they do that was so great?

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

Navigated to the platform and mechanically locked themselves in position to roll all the balls returned into play back into the goal.

They did it so smoothly that it looks like that's what was supposed to happen. You have to watch another match from that year to appreciate it.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

They did it so smoothly that it looks like that's what was supposed to happen. You have to watch another match from that year to appreciate it.

This was not something that was easy to do within the framework of the rules that year, either.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by faust1706

that's how breakaway was on einstein. If you didn't stop....469(?) in autonomous you lost the match.

Nobody stopped 469 in autonomous on Einstein.
469 didn't win Einstein.

Even with an overwhelming strategy, you still have to execute. Getting the cans alone is not a chokehold strategy.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Nobody stopped 469 in autonomous on Einstein.
469 didn't win Einstein.

Even with an overwhelming strategy, you still have to execute. Getting the cans alone is not a chokehold strategy.

I take this quote as one example of all of the similar quotes in this thread; yours just happens to be short.

I disagree with this viewpoint because this game is totally different from 2010. There is a limited number of cans and totes, to the point where if all the cans are acquired at the highest levels it is likely that no other can grabbers can compete.
I did my math with something that solely grabs cans. Add a drivetrain and a can topper and it becomes unstoppable.
I will elaborate on this later.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by asid61

I take this quote as one example of all of the similar quotes in this thread; yours just happens to be short.

I disagree with this viewpoint because this game is totally different from 2010. There is a limited number of cans and totes, to the point where if all the cans are acquired at the highest levels it is likely that no other can grabbers can compete.
I did my math with something that solely grabs cans. Add a drivetrain and a can topper and it becomes unstoppable.
I will elaborate on this later.

While this is correct, it is only applicable at the highest levels of play. Until then the value of the RCs on the step is very low ... especially if they go unused.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by asid61

I take this quote as one example of all of the similar quotes in this thread; yours just happens to be short.

I disagree with this viewpoint because this game is totally different from 2010. There is a limited number of cans and totes, to the point where if all the cans are acquired at the highest levels it is likely that no other can grabbers can compete.
I did my math with something that solely grabs cans. Add a drivetrain and a can topper and it becomes unstoppable.
I will elaborate on this later.

You're missing the point. I wasn't disputing the importance of the cans from a game theory perspective. I'm simply pointing out you still have to execute after obtaining the cans. Unlike controlling the goals in 2002, acquiring the cans is not a chokehold on its own. The cans AND scoring points are a chokehold. If you don't execute in the scoring department, you don't win.

Obviously the teams at the highest level of play should be able to execute in almost every match. However, almost every match is not the same as every match. Mistakes still happen, sometimes crippling ones. Look no further than the Einstein finals in 2010 for proof of that.

The alliances that win the battle for the center step will undoubtedly have an incredibly high winning percentage. However, that winning percentage will not be 100%

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

You're missing the point. I wasn't disputing the importance of the cans from a game theory perspective. I'm simply pointing out you still have to execute after obtaining the cans. Unlike controlling the goals in 2002, acquiring the cans is not a chokehold on its own. The cans AND scoring points are a chokehold. If you don't execute in the scoring department, you don't win.

Obviously the teams at the highest level of play should be able to execute in almost every match. However, almost every match is not the same as every match. Mistakes still happen, sometimes crippling ones. Look no further than the Einstein finals in 2010 for proof of that.

You don't seed high with this; you depend on being picked. A point analysis and minimal scoring capabilities is enough to allow a can grabber to win. That was the point of starting this topic, to discuss how overpowered a fast 4-can is points-wise.

Randomosity isn't something you can really control, and your bot's main mechanism failing entirely in elims would be rare, depending on your mechanism. Not much you can do about that, regardless of whether it's a can grabber or stacker.